It appears she lost her keel. RIP.
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...sailor-in-wa-yacht-race-tragedy-ng-b88756176z
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...sailor-in-wa-yacht-race-tragedy-ng-b88756176z
Two Lost in AU Capsize
- Thread starter Rick D
- Start date
A sad tragedy for sure.
I think it would be very interesting to see who was tethered and who wasn't. This might be another reason to reconsider tethers. I'd guess every crew member had a pfd built into their foulies, for who wouldn't in those cold waters, but I can't even imagine how fast that boat would have gone all the way over without a keel. Being tethered would be a nightmare!
One hand for you and one for the boat. If that ain't enough, then call a mate. Sounds good to me.
I think it would be very interesting to see who was tethered and who wasn't. This might be another reason to reconsider tethers. I'd guess every crew member had a pfd built into their foulies, for who wouldn't in those cold waters, but I can't even imagine how fast that boat would have gone all the way over without a keel. Being tethered would be a nightmare!
One hand for you and one for the boat. If that ain't enough, then call a mate. Sounds good to me.
Whole set of "what if's", as Capta points out. The crew below, as a capsize happens is in a completely different situation (and may be subject of being trapped or injured by sails and other "objects" pinning or breaking them.)
The guys on deck, before the boat goes beyond a knock down position (and starts to sink) are also in a different position. Remember you weren't planning on being attached to an object with a lot of hard stuff on on it and lines that you may now be wrapped in under water (or soon to be).
A lot of it is luck, I suppose, ones ability to visualize where you are, what happened, our path to less danger or prolonged life, etc.
There really isn't much you'd plan on deck -- having a dual harness clip-on at the helm is standard for us on our boat for the helm and person next to them. Not always, but generally. Others in the cockpit are clipped-on to strong points.
On a race boat, there are often crew outside the positions you'd expect on a cruising boat (e.g.,, everyone behind the dodger in cockpit) You could have a compliment of people on the windward rail.
Depending on conditions the boat could have just "flopped" over and "spun" a little -- or it could have been bit of a "Topsy-turvy" roll and crash. Clearly a mess.
I've never had a keel break or lost a rig in a seaway -- but from the recounting of the events, I know it happens a variety of ways -- sometimes will VERY LITTLE notice from now we're sailing; and, now we're turned over and going to sink. The guys in the cockpit at the helm are sometimes lost and the guys inside sometimes make it out. Sometimes the reverse. Sometimes otherwise.
The guys on deck, before the boat goes beyond a knock down position (and starts to sink) are also in a different position. Remember you weren't planning on being attached to an object with a lot of hard stuff on on it and lines that you may now be wrapped in under water (or soon to be).
A lot of it is luck, I suppose, ones ability to visualize where you are, what happened, our path to less danger or prolonged life, etc.
There really isn't much you'd plan on deck -- having a dual harness clip-on at the helm is standard for us on our boat for the helm and person next to them. Not always, but generally. Others in the cockpit are clipped-on to strong points.
On a race boat, there are often crew outside the positions you'd expect on a cruising boat (e.g.,, everyone behind the dodger in cockpit) You could have a compliment of people on the windward rail.
Depending on conditions the boat could have just "flopped" over and "spun" a little -- or it could have been bit of a "Topsy-turvy" roll and crash. Clearly a mess.
I've never had a keel break or lost a rig in a seaway -- but from the recounting of the events, I know it happens a variety of ways -- sometimes will VERY LITTLE notice from now we're sailing; and, now we're turned over and going to sink. The guys in the cockpit at the helm are sometimes lost and the guys inside sometimes make it out. Sometimes the reverse. Sometimes otherwise.
I've read about a number of light race boats losing their keels: when the keel goes, a B1 knock down turns in to a B 2 with no hope that righting moment will save the tethered crew... since there is no righting moment without a keel. I 'd sure like to know why the keels fall off.
Perhaps not limited to, but surely more likely, as the lighter construction would have less strength. This can be offset if carbon fiber and other space age materials are used, which puts boats quickly outside the price range for most of us.
An extreme long, small “dagger” with all the ballast in a bulb at the end/bottom of the keel presents a greater challenge on how the small contact area at the keel-hull joint provides a strong joint that transfers the huge and variable loads to the boat’s hull structure.
There have been a number of boats, including the recent 82’ Oyster which lost its keel that aren’t that extreme, but didn’t get it “right”.
There have been a number of boats, including the recent 82’ Oyster which lost its keel that aren’t that extreme, but didn’t get it “right”.
Carbon is not only expensive it is very slippery stuff. It is difficult to get it to stick to itself or other laminates increasing the risk of delamination or release. A pure race boat is often an all or nothing tool. It can give an edge to win but is at risk of coming apart if stresses are just a little above anything that might happen. The America Cup boats had pieces of the boats coming off when going got rough. In racing, there should be many safety boats around to quickly give a better chance to rescue.
I often recall watching the winning offshore power boat approach the dock in Key West after the race at what seemed to be an excessive speed. As it turned to make it's final approach to the slip they pulled off the power and we watched it sink to the bottom as it entered the slip. The crew stepped off to the dock as it settled to the bottom. It turned out that the boat was so lightly constructed for more speed that it couldn't handle the stresses of the rougher conditions outside the bay. As a consequence, the boat beat it self apart. The only reason it was still floating was the speed kept the water flowing back out of the boat as fast as it entered. Racers and the folks that design these boats compromise safety in the quest for more speed. The folks that race them understand this. They don't plan on conditions outside of the normal. This could have been a factor.
That is what I like about Hunter keels. They are bolted to a keel stub that is supposed to absorb stress and it does. After a hard grounding and even harder time getting it off (took 2 hours of pulling by Towboat US that had 3 150hp engines) the stub cracked a little at the joint to the hull, but I didn't know it and sailed on it for 2 years before discovering the crack during a haulout. The yard repaired it for 2.5k. That was 12 years ago and 30k miles and keel still there 
Of course now days, after a grounding, when I get a chance, I dive down to inspect the keel.
With the pounding the boat took as the waves lifted up the boat and dropped it again for hours, I am sure if it had any other type of keel it would have came off then or shortly later.
So talk all you want about Hunters but I love their keels.
Of course now days, after a grounding, when I get a chance, I dive down to inspect the keel.
With the pounding the boat took as the waves lifted up the boat and dropped it again for hours, I am sure if it had any other type of keel it would have came off then or shortly later.
So talk all you want about Hunters but I love their keels.
Any submerged object could be enough to seperate a keel from one of those boats, from shipping crates to crab pots. Maybe even a whale shark or sunfish.
One wouldn't necessarily even feel an impact of the keel separated easily enough.
It doesn't sound like the boat was holed, otherwise, the crew below would have been lost too.
- Will (Dragonfly)
One wouldn't necessarily even feel an impact of the keel separated easily enough.
It doesn't sound like the boat was holed, otherwise, the crew below would have been lost too.
- Will (Dragonfly)
You make it sound like groundings are a regular event for you. If this is so, might I suggest you pick up a set of our Handy Dandy Keel Wheels.
Never again will shoals, sand bars, reefs or even small islands be an impediment to your sailing. You can just slide right on over what would have been a hard grounding, before you installed your set of Handy Dandy Keel Wheels. Be the first on your dock to have the pleasure of sailing a whole day without having to call Sea Tow or TowBoatUS, because of some pesky, well charted, natural obstruction under the water. And breakwaters? Worrying about slamming into one of those on a calm, moonlit night are a thing of the past, once you have had your local boat yard install your set of Handy Dandy Keel Wheels. Our Handy Dandy Keel Wheels come in three sizes, one is sure to fit your boat perfectly. PM me for prices and details.
can you attach them to a power takeoff from your auxilery so even above surfaces obstructions can be navigated right over? That would be REALLY COOL
!- Will (Dragonfly)
I believe you missed the "small islands" part. We often sail from Clifton to Chatham Bay, directly OVER the island, rather than wasting all that time sailing around, like those who have not yet installed a set of our Handy Dandy Keel Wheels.can you attach them to a power takeoff from your auxilery so even above surfaces obstructions can be navigated right over? That would be REALLY COOL
- Will (Dragonfly)
The down wind run from the top of the hill to the bay can be quite exhilarating!
Ha Ha ha. I haven't hit ground, well, since anchoring where the charts said I had 6' depth in the Exumas but it was less than 5 when the tide went out. That was 3 years ago. 6 years ago I ran into a sandbar off the shore of St. Petes. The tip of my wing keel bumped into a rock passing through a reef entry point in Abacos Sea 5 years ago. Other than those three, not since my early days 12 years ago.
As a cruiser I sail in a lot of places I am unfamiliar with and the charts aren't all that accurate at times, so yeah, I sometimes bump into things. Can I get 3 orders of your wheels. I want to make sure I have enough wheels
Hey, don't rag on me. I was just responding to your post, "Of course now days, after a grounding"..........Ha Ha ha. I haven't hit ground, well, since anchoring where the charts said I had 6' depth in the Exumas but it was less than 5 when the tide went out. That was 3 years ago. 6 years ago I ran into a sandbar off the shore of St. Petes. The tip of my wing keel bumped into a rock passing through a reef entry point in Abacos Sea 5 years ago. Other than those three, not since my early days 12 years ago.
As a cruiser I sail in a lot of places I am unfamiliar with and the charts aren't all that accurate at times, so yeah, I sometimes bump into things. Can I get 3 orders of your wheels. I want to make sure I have enough wheels