International Certificate for Bareboating

JRacer · Oct 27, 2017

Saw this a while back: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/asa-courses.185445/#post-1375396

Jackdaw · Oct 27, 2017

Been there, done that, wrote it all up here....

http://rarerarebird.blogspot.com/2017/03/getting-international-certificate-of.html

BigEasy · Oct 27, 2017

Try the "Nautic Ed" website. I think that they now offer an international certificate if you complete a series of their online courses.

Jackdaw · Oct 27, 2017

BigEasy said:
Try the "Nautic Ed" website. I think that they now offer an international certificate if you complete a series of their online courses.

That's what I did and wrote up. You still have to pass a tough 1-on-1 proficiency test, which includes close boat maneuvering, sailing skills, and testing of paper map reading, plotting, planning, and buoyage. Its no cake walk. No one I know would pass it without taking the RYA Day Skipper theory exam.

Jackdaw · Oct 27, 2017

rfrye1 said:
I have a friend who has never sailed or boated.... did the ASA crash course from basic thru Bare Boating in a week or three and now HE has the International Certificate! So he's the expert..UGH.

One more thing. If your friend did the ASA 101/2/4 sequence, they might have issued him a faux ICC called a 'International Proficiency Certificate'. This is something ASA made up; its not an ICC and its acceptance is subject to whoever is looking at it. It's a shame. I know 'skippers' with ASA104s that I would not let drive my boat across the marina.

capta · Oct 27, 2017

Just out of curiosity, has anyone with a USCG master's certificate used that to rent a bareboat in Europe or Greece?

BigEasy · Oct 27, 2017

Jackdaw said:
I know 'skippers' with ASA104s that I would not let drive my boat across the marina.

The problem with most sail instructional programs is that they give you a bit of theory and practical on the water training to reinforce the theory. Its a good start; however, it isn't enough time to qualify a person as a proficient sailor. Proficiency only comes with accumulated experiences and time on the water.
I compare it to a Southerner learning to snow ski. You go to a resort once a year, take some lessons, and after 3 or 4 days you feel a degree of proficiency. Unfortunately, you don't return for a year or two and consequently you really haven't improved your skills; its like starting all over again! ( I can personally attest to this scenario and have decided that at my age I don't need to do this any longer!)
Jack, your situation was the exception. You already had the knowledge, training, experience, and miles under the keel; you just needed the paperwork to prove it! But, it did give you the opportunity to go back and review all of theoretical stuff and that is a good thing to do periodically.

Jackdaw · Oct 27, 2017

capta said:
Just out of curiosity, has anyone with a USCG master's certificate used that to rent a bareboat in Europe or Greece?

Capta, does the master require you to demonstrate proficiency? I know the 6-pack does not, so cannot be used. The European tests require demonstrated proficiency. If it does it would be OK

Kings Gambit · Oct 27, 2017

As matter of comparison, I bare-boat chartered a nearly 50-ft sailboat for two weeks out of BC (British Columbia) this past summer and was not asked for this type of certificate; whereas, I did submit a résumé. It's true, I am a repeat charterer with the company. Still, I don't see the "requirement" or prerequisite as being evenly applied. The international bare-boat charter business must be booming if companies can afford to pass on charterers with years of experience but who have not jumped through the "certificate hoop", and that's all that it is. A meaningless, CYA hoop, IMHO.

Jackdaw · Oct 27, 2017

Kings Gambit said:
As matter of comparison, I bare-boat chartered a nearly 50-ft sailboat for two weeks out of BC (British Columbia) this past summer and was not asked for this type of certificate; whereas, I did submit a résumé. It's true, I am a repeat charterer with the company. Still, I don't see the "requirement" or prerequisite as being evenly applied. The international bare-boat charter business must be booming if companies can afford to pass on charterers with years of experience but who have not jumped through the "certificate hoop", and that's all that it is. A meaningless, CYA hoop, IMHO.

Sometimes its an insurance thing. In Greece and most of the EU, its the LAW.

Kings Gambit · Oct 27, 2017

Jackdaw said:
Sometimes its an insurance thing. In Greece and most of the EU, its the LAW.

I did not know that; hopefully it's not coming over here anytime soon.

Jackdaw · Oct 27, 2017

Kings Gambit said:
I did not know that; hopefully it's not coming over here anytime soon.

It’s not that bad. Imagine driving on the road with drivers without drivers licenses. Hey that’s us. Same sorta thing. ;-)

Kings Gambit · Oct 27, 2017

Jackdaw said:
It’s not that bad. Imagine driving on the road with drivers without drivers licenses. Hey that’s us. Same sorta thing. ;-)

Maybe if there were a boater "courtesy endorsement" to go with the skills test. For example, how to anchor a respectful distance from your neighbors; how keep music low so only you can hear it; how to teach the dogs not to bark; and how to avoid annoying your neighbors with portable (or other) generators chugging along through the day and half of the night, etc., "quietly

" in otherwise anthropologically soundless, pristine areas, of which we have few left to visit.

Will Gilmore · Oct 27, 2017

I have never bareboated but I have looked into a few times. Most of the outfits I have looked into offered their own intro course that may be a reasonable gateway to bare boating with them.
"does the master require you to demonstrate proficiency? I know the 6-pack does not, so cannot be used."
I'm not sure how it is now but, when my father captained a headboat in Florida when I was a kid, both a head boat licence and a 6 pack required a certain number of hours operating a vessel signed by a licensed captain plus a test. The CG didn't ask for competency to be demonstrated but for proof of experience as vouched for by a licensed captain. It was not an insignificant number of hours either.

Jackdaw · Oct 27, 2017

Will Gilmore said:
I'm not sure how it is now but, when my father captained a headboat in Florida when I was a kid, both a head boat licence and a 6 pack required a certain number of hours operating a vessel signed by a licensed captain plus a test. The CG didn't ask for competency to be demonstrated but for proof of experience as vouched for by a licensed captain. It was not an insignificant number of hours either.

As a boat owner, I’ve looked into the 6-pack. You generate a log on your own recognizance. You can backfull one in a day. No test. No other proof needed. So no verified competency.

The signed part is only if you are not the ‘master’ of the boat on which the log hours are based.

Kings Gambit · Oct 27, 2017

When I got my ASA Instructor's card (certification) there was someone in the clinic with a USCG masters licence who did not know what a Mercator projection is, and could not sail (singlehand) a Capri 22 upwind inside a harbor in 10 kt true.

If you do not own your own sailboat and have not at some point logged at least 30 sailing days a year with at least one weekend a month overnight on the hook on average, plus have never skippered in races, then I doubt you really know how to sail regardless of whatever certifications you may possess or how many years you've been "a boater."

Not just speculation here; I speak from observation. Others here will disagree with me; so, there are other opinions.

Will Gilmore · Oct 27, 2017

I'll never be able to meet that criteria. No interest in racing what so ever. I'll have to be content with getting where I'm going and being able to dock when I get there without actually being a sailor.
However, as far as the question about bare boating goes. I think each outfit makes its decisions on who to rent to based on their individual criteria and their insurance. If you take a short course with them or some other rental company who gives out a certificate of completion you may be able to use that "school of sailing" to rent from other companies. Read their web site and give them a call. They will probably be accommodating.
Will (Dragonfly)

JimInPB · Oct 27, 2017

Kings Gambit said:
When I got my ASA Instructor's certification there was someone in the clinic with a USCG masters licence who did not know what a Mercator projection is, and could not sail (singlehand) a Capri 22 upwind inside a harbor in 10 kt true.

I don't disagree that there are some paper licensed captains out there who don't actually know how to drive a boat properly, but I do have a question about your specific example. Do you happen to know if that guy had a sailing endorsement on his masters ticket?

onlinelee · Oct 27, 2017

You are totally correct, chartering here in europe has become more regulated over the years, in the UK many smaller charterers will let you bareboat without any qualifications, you just need to demonstrate you know what you are doing! Europe is different! In Greece they accept the ICC for bareboat, for sailors with no qualifications the charter companies offer a one or two day course that results in a " certificate " of sorts that allows you to bareboat, Nielsons is one of these companies. I will happily ask my Nephew who is a base manager for Nielsons in the Ionian ( Greece ) for some more information if you want me to?