Roller furler and towing

[Tedd]

We bought a Macgregor 26S this summer and have begun thinking about various upgrades. I thought all along that I'd want a roller furler, but after rigging the boat a few times I began to wonder how much that affects setting up the rigging before launching. We tow and launch every time we sail (although we do try to make as many trips over-nighters as possible), so keeping the set-up simple is important. How much does the roller system affect set-up time? For casual cruising (which is all we do), do the advantages on the water more than offset a more complicated set-up? Or is it even more complicated?

 

[walt]

I will give your question a shot.. since I have the same boat and had a similar situation. I have had this boat now for about 10 years and had a hank on jib for about 6 years and roller furling for the last 4.

I assume you have the mast raising system and its easier to raise and lower the mast with the hank on setup. I am comparing that to my current roller furling jib setup with a 110 jib that I always keep rolled up on the furler when the mast is raised or lowered.

Definitely easier to raise and lower the mast with the hank on setup. You dont have the additional weight of the furler plus wrapped up sail plus you dont have the additional task of trying to keep things from getting stressed like the forestay cable or bends in the furler. Plus there is more to get hung up catching on stuff.. The additional weight of the furler plus rolled up sail will make attaching the forestay more difficult. When you trailer the boat, you will have additional steps to secure the furler so that it doesnt get damaged while trailering. However, you can develop some techniques to help so this ends up being manageable. No doubt the furler takes longer and is more difficult.. but in reality its probably just an extra 5 to 10 minutes. Over this last year, I will have raised and lowered my mast 10 times with the furler and sail in place.. Some things on the boat I wont do because of the hassle.. but raising and lowering the mast with the furler.. well... it really wasn't that terrible.. FYI, I always raise and lower the mast by myself.

I used hank on jibs for many years and happy that I did. You can add a downhaul to drop the sail from the cockpit so you can single hand with hank on (you dont need a furler to single hand). Its also way easier to have two different jib sail sizes since its way easier to change the hank on vs on the furler. With the furler I had to pick one size only and I made a compromise for very light wind.. A large sail on a furler partially rolled up is still a compromise for heavier wind as the shape or the sheet angles wont be all that good. You lose a little sail area on a furler compared to hank on.

My .02.. Sometimes making a change to the boat keeps the experience fresh and fun. You will likely have fun with the furler when you make the change. but if you are doing a lot of setup now and even if you single hand, you dont need to be in a hurry.

FYI, what really drove me to go to a roller furler was that when I dropped the jib, it would cover all my anchor hardware making deploying the anchor off the bow a hassle. Now with the furler, the sail is all rolled up nicely and out of the way and the anchor (on a roller) is easy to get at. Not a really great reason.. but that is mostly how it played out for me. Im in a marina for months at a tme (nice to have the furler) but still do some trips for just a few days on the water (nice to have the hank on for easier setup).

 

[Tedd]

Thanks, Walt, some great insights there.

I don't have the 'factory' mast raising system. I made up my own system out of stuff I had in my shop. I have a pole that mounts on the forward holes in the mast bracket, and a block and tackle attached to the pulpit. I run the block and tackle over the end of the pole and attach it to both ends of the forward halyard. I've never single-handed it, but it works well with two people (wife on the b&t and me walking it up from the stern). That leaves the forward stay free so that it's easy to shackle in.

I do know what you mean about having the jib in the way when anchoring. It hadn't even occurred to me what an advantage that would be, with the roller furler. Still, I think you're right that it makes sense for me to work with what I've got for a while. Although I do want to be able to single-hand my boat, it's not a priority. The whole point of Dragonfly was to have something for my wife and I to do together. We've always had separate hobbies, but it turns out that we both love sailing. But, yes, long term I do want to be able to single-hand her, if only just for the experience of being out there on my own.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Tedd

 

[LeeandRick]

I have incorporated a way in my mast raising gin pole, on our O'Day 23, to eliminate the issues that a furler brings into play like bouncing down the deck or going over the side and bending the tube. Another component you will need for a furler is a way to keep it straight while trailering (a 2x4 strapped to the mast) since it will be almost a meter longer than the mast. The extra weight of the sail does make it more difficult to connect the forestay as Walt pointed out. I launched our boat 12 times in 2 months and never felt the furler was a big deal. That being said I'm seriously thinking of going with a hank on jib for our S2 project boat. Walt has alluded to the the poor sail shape that occurs when you reef and we both have foam luffs that supposedly help this problem but you still have this big wad of sail around the headstay. Walt and I spend the winters on the same pond and the wind is fickle. You either have too much sail or not enough with some really perfect days thrown in for good measure for the sail you have on the furler. There are many days I would be out sailing if I could hank on a 80-100% vs the 135% rolled up to that size. Oh and the sun covers on furler sails don't stretch the same as sail cloth so sail shape sucks after a couple of years. My short answer (ha,ha) if always trailering stay with hank on.

 

[Tedd]

More good ideas! It hadn't occurred to me that a partially furled foresail wouldn't perform as well, but it makes sense. I think I'll stay with the hank-on jib and genoa for the time being. In the near term I can make better use of the money and time that installing a roller furler would cost. Heck, I don't even have a topping lift yet. There are lots of little things I can do that will make the boat more enjoyable.

 

[williamtl]

My 26D had the fuller on it when I purchased it, so I don’t know any different. You need to keep some tension on it while raising and lowering. I’ve found a stout bungee does the trick. Of course, if there is another human, then they can be the bungee

I was nervous about mine while trailering. I’ll try to find a post showing a brace I made that has worked well for my short (50 mile) and long (600 mile) trips.

Edit: look in the What did you do to your Mac today thread, post 1832.

 

[Tedd]

Edit: look in the What did you do to your Mac today thread, post 1832.

Very nice! I'll keep that in mind.

Tedd

 

[Sumner]

We started with a hank-on foresail and then went to a roller furler and I'd never go back. Any additional setup time (not much as Walt mentioned) is more than off set by the ease of furling the sail in when sailing vs. going up and dropping it and securing it, plus the easy of using the anchors as mentioned above. Also one can change the size of the sail easily to deal with varying wind conditions. Maybe not always the best vs. having different size sails but if you are cruising and not racing not a big deal.

I use a Johnson lever at the ...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-24.html

... bottom of the furler drum and remove it ....

... when trailering and re-pin it at the ramp. I also use a jin pole to pull the mast up and.....

.... tie the genoa up on it when I raise the mast and that way it doesn't drag on the deck. I got the idea from the person who took the picture above of their mast raising system with a furler. I tie it to the top of the gin pole though and the sail is on it. Short length of line and a simple knot takes care of that. The Johnson lever makes it easy to pin the forestay/furler and then tension it.

Sumner
=======================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[JimInPB]

I'm pretty fond of roller reefing, once the rig is up. I'm also pretty fond of a plain head stay with tensioning buckle when setting up the standing rigging. If I had a boat with a head stay & I wanted to add roller reefing to the jib, I think that I might look into the possibility of getting a jib made up on the kind of roll up hardware that is usually used on a Code 0. That way, you set the rig with the hardware that you have now, then raise the roller jib on your existing jib halyard. That seems to me like the most user friendly solution. It might cost you a few bucks.

 

[JimInPB]

I use a Johnson lever at the ...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/rigging-24.html

... bottom of the furler drum and remove it ....

Thank you for posting that. I have a "Johnson lever" on my boat with a fore stay, but not on my boat with a roller jib. I had structural concerns about the Johnson Lever not handling the twisting stress well, so I haven't added one on the roller gizmo. I may now rethink that.

 

[RussC]

Wile a bit of time is lost during mast prep and raising, it's more than gained back after that. ie. when the mast is raised your head sail is ready to go after the sheets are clipped on etc. etc. overall I think it's time/hassle saved to have the furler.

.02

 

[Tedd]

a jib made up on the kind of roll up hardware that is usually used on a Code 0. That way, you set the rig with the hardware that you have now, then raise the roller jib on your existing jib halyard.

That's a neat idea! I'll look into that for my boat.

Tedd

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Gentlemen;
A couple of warnings here based on what I see. When raising and lowering the mast with a mast raise pole or as some would say, NEVER PULL UP OR DOWN ON THAT POLE PATICURALY IN THE MIDDLE OR IT MAY AND WILL COLLAPSE LOOSING THE MAST FALLING DOWN DAMAGING THE BOAT AND POSSIBLE INJURING PEOPLE. I DESIGNED A SYSTEM STILL IN USE TODAY AND ADVISED CUSTOMERS OF THAT.

IF EVER SECURING THE ROLLER FURLING REGARDLESS OF MANUFACTURER BECAUSE THE ADDITIONAL WEIGHT OF THE FURLER AND WORSE WITH THE SAIL STILL ON WILL CAUSE THE MAST TO BOUNCE UP AND DOWN UNLESS SUPPORTED UNDERNEATH AT LEAST IN THE MIDDLE. I REPLACED MASTS DUE TO THIS WITHOUT SUPPORT AS A FORMER DEALER.

 

[JimInPB]

Gentlemen;
A couple of warnings .

Dave, can you please elaborate. I am not understanding where you are saying not to pull.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

The warning applies to the pole when in use raising or lowering the mast say for example pushing int the middle of the pole where it will collapse

 

[JimInPB]

The gin pole? You are saying don't push the middle of the gin pole?
That makes sense to me.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Solarfry]

There are basically three kinds of roller furlers. The all jib or no jib (1) (fully furled or fully unfurled) and the variable jib (2) models. Some allow you to take the sail off (CDI) (2) Others the sail is attached to the (1) forestay. The ones that allow you to remove or change the jib have a foil. The ones that don't have a forestay only. The all or nothing ones are much lighter than the adjustable ones. A thing to consider when sailing. The all or nothing (1) are easier for small sailboats where the mast is raised and lowered as they are lighter to raise with mast. There are some that are (3) separate from the foresail. The adjustable ones (2) add 30 to 50 # to mast when raising of lowering and counter that weight by allowing you to change foresails on the foil. You can have just jib or Genoa on foil.

I have the Macgregor mast raising pole with the brake winch. There is no way pushing on it in the middle would make any difference. It is bolted to cabin top at bottom and tied to mast and bow at top. It makes it a joy to raise the mast. If you don't complicate it with more lines than it truly requires.

I have the CDI and am conscious of the weight only while setting it up to the Macgregor Mast raising system. Once the rig is up all I have to do is lay on the foredeck and insert the bow Tang pin and it's done. After that I can remove the MMRS or not.

http://www.macgregor26.com/mast_raising/mast_raising.htm

From scratch:

 

[Solarfry]

Here's a good site to visit:
http://www.holderness.info/boats-a-projects/macgregor-mods.html

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Any mast raising pole is pushed or pulled on paticuraly in the middle will give and collapse and that included those from MacGregor as well. Use to sell them too.

 

[Brian S]

Oh and the sun covers on furler sails don't stretch the same as sail cloth so sail shape sucks after a couple of years. My short answer (ha,ha) if always trailering stay with hank on.

Roller reefed headsails will stretch, but not because of the UV protective strips. It's because most roller furling headsails reefed by rolling up do not have any reinforcements on the foot and leech of the sail to accommodate being partially rolled up. Take a look at the tack, clew, and head of a sail. It has multiple layers of sailcloth to resist the corner loading on the sail. So, if one were to purchase a new roller furling (and reefing) headsail, one ought to have the sailmaker put in reinforcement patches on foot and leech at common reef points. On a 135%, you'd probably want them around 110% and 90%.

Of course, the 2 other things I want in a roller reefing headsail are foam luff, to help make a better luff entry when rolled up, and UV protective strips on foot and leech.

Just my $0.02...