Buying A Boat That's On The Hard

dlochner · Aug 6, 2017

Haven't encountered this situation in the 2 boats that I bought that were on the hard. I see a couple of options, 1) Walk away; 2) Reduce your offer by $2500 and accept his terms.

shemandr · Aug 6, 2017

I don't agree that the seller pays for the survey. If so the surveyor works for the seller and not for you. No, you should pay for the survey and dictate the terms of the survey. Why would you pay for the winter storage? If he can't sell it, he's got to pay for storage. There may be some protection for him, after there is a contract, that you can't drag it out so long as winter storage becomes an issue. But normally in a sale you want the boat he wants his money.

Gunni · Aug 6, 2017

No the buyer pays for the survey, not the seller. Around these parts a seller drops the boat in the water this time of year for just this reason - buyers want to know it floats and there will be a sea trial. So since he started this game of 5-card cheap, low ball him, and be prepared to walk.

Kermit · Aug 6, 2017

I'm glad I don't live where y'all live. I've never heard of a potential buyer paying for anything other than the survey. Maybe I've been lucky. Who knows...

mcrow33 · Aug 6, 2017

I've bought three boats on the hard. In all cases, I've had the boat surveyed, and held $5000 in escrow until on sea trialed the engine. The escrow would cover cost if there was any engine problems.

uncledom · Aug 6, 2017

mcrow33

My second boat I had the broker hold 7500 in escrow to make sure the drive train had no problems. The owner squealed at how much I wanted held back knowing he had to pay for repairs. That is how you get around it.
Edit: at that point you have decided you want the boat and that your not going to get burnt by some unknown problem, so you make the problem his by agreeing that repairs come out of the escrow.

Kermit · Aug 6, 2017

uncledom said:
mcrow33

My second boat I had the broker hold 7500 in escrow to make sure the drive train had no problems. The owner squealed at how much I wanted held back knowing he had to pay for repairs. That is how you get around it.
Edit: at that point you have decided you want the boat and that your not going to get burnt by some unknown problem, so you make the problem his by agreeing that repairs come out of the escrow.

There you go.

bawlmer · Aug 6, 2017

The seller is looking for anyone to help offset his costs any way he can. If you can get him to change his terms on this item he will try to screw you on another. You should want no part of this guy. Walk away.

Scott T-Bird · Aug 6, 2017

It's all a negotiation. It sounds like you might be $2,500 apart regardless of the circumstance. But if I were in your shoes and facing the position that it might cost me $2,500 to walk away after a sea trial, I'd be inclined not to go forward, either (even if you deduct it from the sales price during a negotiation). This seller seems like he is shooting himself in the foot, and maybe he just needs to be gently told that (perhaps by his broker?). He might consider that he needs to put the boat in the water if he wants to sell it.

isaksp00 · Aug 6, 2017

Is it now covered or wrapped and also already winterized? Seems to me if he wants to sell it, he ought to have placed it into a situation where it can be sailed, that is, unwinterized. I'd not accept those terms, unless it is a good deal, has passed your survey, you want it, and can escrow enough to cover unforeseen repairs identified during the sea trial.

BarryL · Aug 6, 2017

Hey,
I think that is standard operating procedure.
I have bought and sold boats on the hard and I had the same terms. Look at it from the owners' point of view: You are trying to sell a boat. The boat has been hauled. You don't have a slip or mooring for the boat. A prospective buyer doesn't need to pay for a haul to have the boat surveyed. However, if the boat is rejected AFTER the in water survey, the boat needs to be hauled again. So I agree that the potential buyer should pay, but $2500 seems way excessive.
If you want to buy a boat that is in the water, you need to pay for a short haul. With the boat on the hard you save those costs.

Good luck,
Barry

Crazy Dave Condon · Aug 7, 2017

Although retired but from a dealer perspective, I was a proponent that the buyer pays for the survey and that of course would include haul out or if on the hard, to include any costs associated for putting the boat in and out of the water if on the hard. The above suggestions by Mcrow33 and Uncledom are excellent.

Parsons · Aug 7, 2017

I agree with most of what is said above, particularly @Scott T-Bird 's comment that this is negotiation. It's a buyer's market because (1) sailing big boats is a dying art, and (2) boats cost serious money annually to insure, store, and dock. I don't know what boat you're buying, but I'll bet if it was a production boat there's another one in the next marina up the coast with a buyer who is ready to deal. This is the end of summer, because if you sign today it will be September before you have this free-and-clear - then you pay for insurance, storage, etc. I'm thinking that $2,500 is ridiculous to transition a boat from water to winter storage - which is the only marginal cost for taking the boat from dry to running, and back to dry. Perhaps that quote also includes the storage costs for inside-heated as well, which the seller will have to pay in another three months anyhow?

PS - Based on @jibes138 's comments below, I think that you should say that you'll think about this for 6 months (after he pays for winter storage, insurance, and such). I'll bet he doesn't have another buyer on the line!

Gunni · Aug 7, 2017

Hold-back will not cover the sellers demand that if there is no sale the buyer pays to have it put back on the hard, blocked and winterized. In fact that is a coercive negotiating tactic to force the sale. Strike it.

jibes138 · Aug 7, 2017

Some marinas require storage with the mast down. Does a sea trial include rigging the mast and sails and pulling it all down later? Seller will be paying for at least 5 months of storage over the winter without a sale. At 300 to 500 a month it will cast him 1500 to 2500 maybe more. Add in another year of property tax, registration fee and documentation and likely over 3 grand not to sell it. Then it's another year older so depreciation will knock down the value a bit. Maybe 5% give or take. Seems you have a lot of leverage. Given this late in the season revisit in early spring so you don't have the storage fees.

Scott T-Bird · Aug 7, 2017

Barry makes good points in behalf of the seller. I can see this side of the argument. Why should seller get stuck with a bill for somebody who might be wishy-washy about the purchase? It seems like they need to find some middle ground. If buyer is 90% sure about purchasing the boat, then why should he worry about this condition when it won't cost him anything? An escrow agreement seems in order. Like some people have said, if the only concern is the condition of the engine, then seller should be willing to pay for fixing something that is discovered during sea trial. If buyer simply doesn't like the way the boat sails or looks in the water and wants to walk, then the cost of restoring it on the hard should be his expense.

Gunni · Aug 7, 2017

Scott T-Bird said:
If buyer is 90% sure about purchasing the boat, then why should he worry about this condition when it won't cost him anything?

Because there are a TON of problems that only a seatrial will reveal. I can be 100% sure I want the boat but have the seatrial reveal that the engine has problems, wiring does not work, the running rigging is hacked, and all of that adds up to costs that the seller refuses to acknowledge or comp. Why would any savvy buyer put himself in the corner like that? Frankly the seller sounds like he is out to lunch. Why deal with that?

Scott T-Bird · Aug 7, 2017

Gunni said:
Because there are a TON of problems that only a seatrial will reveal. I can be 100% sure I want the boat but have the seatrial reveal that the engine has problems, wiring does not work, the running rigging is hacked, and all of that adds up to costs that the seller refuses to acknowledge or comp. Why would any savvy buyer put himself in the corner like that? Frankly the seller sounds like he is out to lunch. Why deal with that?

jvss doesn't have to deal with it if he is concerned about losing $2,500. Perhaps he should only consider boats that are ready for sea trial without additional expense (except for short-haul, as Barry mentions). Perhaps the seller should put his boat in the water to sell. There are trade-offs and compromises on both sides of any deal. It's rare to find a deal where nobody has to take any chance. Usually buyers and sellers find a way to get over hurdles, or, one or the other walks away. That's how it generally works. The way to bridge these hurdle is usually an escrow ... but even then arguments can be spawned when sides can't agree on the "facts".