Sad to see this. Kids electrocuted on sailboat
- Thread starter Skipper
- Start date
There is more to this story I'd like to understand.
1) was the boat in the water? If so, how did it hit a power line? Who has low hanging power lines over a recreational lake? There is a piece of information missing here.
2) or did this happen at the launch ramp? I have seen power lines at launch sites before. But if this is what happened, why were the kids on the boat during launch? Avian, a piece of information is missing.
This one really bothers me. I have been a troop leader and have taken scouts out on my boats . We use almost every experience to drill safety. I don't want to start a bash thread. I want to understand. I find it hard to believe a scout leader who was also a SAILOR would have sailed a hobie in a lake with a power line drooping at 21 feet above the water or allowed kids to ride a boat at the launch ramp during launch and fail to see a power line over head.
I need to believe there is a missing piece to this story.
1) was the boat in the water? If so, how did it hit a power line? Who has low hanging power lines over a recreational lake? There is a piece of information missing here.
2) or did this happen at the launch ramp? I have seen power lines at launch sites before. But if this is what happened, why were the kids on the boat during launch? Avian, a piece of information is missing.
This one really bothers me. I have been a troop leader and have taken scouts out on my boats . We use almost every experience to drill safety. I don't want to start a bash thread. I want to understand. I find it hard to believe a scout leader who was also a SAILOR would have sailed a hobie in a lake with a power line drooping at 21 feet above the water or allowed kids to ride a boat at the launch ramp during launch and fail to see a power line over head.
I need to believe there is a missing piece to this story.
It's hard to be absolutely certain from the way the story is written, but when authorities arrived, the 18 yo was dead on the boat, and the 16 yo was dead in the water. That would lead me to believe the boat was in the water. Having said that, I have seen someone blown away from a large transformer when he touched the wrong part, so the kid could have been on the boat at the ramp and blown into the water.
The other piece of data is that the third kid was receiving CPR on a nearby boat. Someone trained in CPR knew they had to get the kid on a hard surface (good for them). If the electrified boat was on the ramp, it seems to me the ramp would have been the hard surface used for CPR. But again, two kids could have been blown into the water I guess.
But I too would love to know more. My club has a VERY active Sea Scouts program, so this hits a little close.
The other piece of data is that the third kid was receiving CPR on a nearby boat. Someone trained in CPR knew they had to get the kid on a hard surface (good for them). If the electrified boat was on the ramp, it seems to me the ramp would have been the hard surface used for CPR. But again, two kids could have been blown into the water I guess.
But I too would love to know more. My club has a VERY active Sea Scouts program, so this hits a little close.
There are many aerial power lines crossing rivers, lakes, reservoirs and sections of bodies of water. The draft on some of these lines varies with tides or flood levels. Overhead power lines may also be present at boat ramps so it is important to survey ahead of time any obstructions that may be present in your launching and sailing area. A good habit to get into when at the helm is to frequently scan the waters ahead, the waters behind, the depth gauge and the sky ahead. That is indeed a tragedy. Accidents happen and there is not always a necessary party to blame. It is easy to second guess and come up with reasons how the accident could have been avoided but people are not perfect and those who were not there have no base to come up with observations. I'm sure the incident will be thoroughly investigated and if there was any negligence or tampering with the wire it will come out.
Lake Hopatcong has overhead power lines to 2 separate islands. I don't think the heights are marked. I motored towards the power line that jumps to Halsey Island and decided that I wasn't going to take a chance. It does seem odd that there isn't a greater warning. It seems like local knowledge and general apprehension keeps sailboats away (in the case at Lake Hopatcong). I'd have to say the location of the power lines isn't a logical place to take a sailboat due to the relatively narrow passage and protection from the wind. Smaller sailboats would have no problem crossing under, but I don't know what the threshold would be. I'm guessing that none of the LHYC fleets cross under these power lines.
The article doesn't exactly say that this was a Boy Scout outing (only that the victims were Boy Scouts). I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that any adults, other than the parents, would have been involved in supervising the kids. The photograph seems to show a Boy Scout memorial for the boys. Very sad tragedy, again.
Reading a Washington Post article, it appears that this occurred at a Boy Scout camp, after all. It does seem like information is missing so far. I would assume that this is an area that should be familiar to the Scouts. Perhaps the power line sagged due to some unusual circumstance (you'd think that somebody would have noticed)? Perhaps the water is unusually high (but how marginal would clearance seem to be under normal circumstances?). Perhaps the Scouts had never introduced sailing at this location with a boat that has a mast tall enough to be in danger?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-lines-on-texas-lake/?utm_term=.03e999acbf6c
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-lines-on-texas-lake/?utm_term=.03e999acbf6c
VERY common on reservoirs, in particular next to bridges. Often the lines are just above the water clearance height.
The two dead were Eagle scouts doing sail training with the young scout. You may notice that high voltage lines droop WAY more on a hot summer day. That would be Texas. Perhaps the power line was formerly high enough to clear the mast, but in hot weather it was not. It is awful, neither the boat or the sweetwater would have offered any refuge to these scouts, electricity ranges far and wide in fresh looking for a ground.
It appears they were paddling the cat up a small creek off the lake. That would explain the low power lines.
http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/new...-freak-accident-at-lake-o-the-pines/784138133
http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/new...-freak-accident-at-lake-o-the-pines/784138133
First let me say, HI to all. I have been lurking on the forum for a while and this is my first post. This forum is the best.
This happened on the lake where I sail all the time and I know a few of the people involved personally. Here is the statement from the electric company which give a fairly accurate report of what happened.
http://www.easttexasmatters.com/new...g-electrocution-of-three-boy-scouts/784566866
The scouts were camping on private property on the creek side (north) of the bridge. They were only paddling to try to keep the boat out of the lines. I have NOT been in that area personally and have no idea of conditions there. True that the older scouts were giving a younger scout a training lesson. The older scouts were camping on the south side of the bridge and had the Hobie out on the main lake the weekend prior so, they had some familiarity with the boat. This lake has VERY shifty winds and there was a front heading in on Saturday (one of the reasons I didn't go out) causing a wind shift from the north to the south. The area is narrow and the lines are the lowest over the deepest section. The power company is well aware of the condition of that line as it has killed a sailor form our club in years past. (though I am not sure if it is the same location as the lines run next to the road where there are bridges that cross the feeding creeks) He was an attorney and his widow has the $ to prove it. They supposedly raised the lines after that incident.
I would have to guess that inexperience was the major factor at this point. I will say that my experience as a Scout leader says that I would not have let my boys anywhere near that area regardless of skill level. We will train younger scouts (as I have a class scheduled for the very near future) in the cove near the club where wind is minimal and we can easily get to them. After they are proficient, we will take them out to the main body with 2 other chase boats. My older scouts have a H18 that I have yet to put the jib on because I don't feel they are quite ready for "full power" yet. If the wind is more that what I deem safe for their skill level, they don't get to go out. Their safety is MY responsibility at all times.
Thank you for allowing me to ramble...
This happened on the lake where I sail all the time and I know a few of the people involved personally. Here is the statement from the electric company which give a fairly accurate report of what happened.
http://www.easttexasmatters.com/new...g-electrocution-of-three-boy-scouts/784566866
The scouts were camping on private property on the creek side (north) of the bridge. They were only paddling to try to keep the boat out of the lines. I have NOT been in that area personally and have no idea of conditions there. True that the older scouts were giving a younger scout a training lesson. The older scouts were camping on the south side of the bridge and had the Hobie out on the main lake the weekend prior so, they had some familiarity with the boat. This lake has VERY shifty winds and there was a front heading in on Saturday (one of the reasons I didn't go out) causing a wind shift from the north to the south. The area is narrow and the lines are the lowest over the deepest section. The power company is well aware of the condition of that line as it has killed a sailor form our club in years past. (though I am not sure if it is the same location as the lines run next to the road where there are bridges that cross the feeding creeks) He was an attorney and his widow has the $ to prove it. They supposedly raised the lines after that incident.
I would have to guess that inexperience was the major factor at this point. I will say that my experience as a Scout leader says that I would not have let my boys anywhere near that area regardless of skill level. We will train younger scouts (as I have a class scheduled for the very near future) in the cove near the club where wind is minimal and we can easily get to them. After they are proficient, we will take them out to the main body with 2 other chase boats. My older scouts have a H18 that I have yet to put the jib on because I don't feel they are quite ready for "full power" yet. If the wind is more that what I deem safe for their skill level, they don't get to go out. Their safety is MY responsibility at all times.
Thank you for allowing me to ramble...
It appears from the map that the power lines cross a narrow neck that connects a larger area on the north side of the power lines in Alley Creek with the smaller area north of the bridge. I assume that it also isn't feasible to take a sailboat from the main body of the lake up into Alley Creek because of the bridge, so it isn't that likely to find sailboats in Alley Creek. Are you saying that the wind shift, caused difficulties for the boys because they launched on the south side of the power lines and the shift caused them to drift into the power lines? Lacking sufficient experience, they may not have been able to sail upwind to avoid the power lines, so they attempted to paddle, instead? Boxed in by the bridge and the power lines, it seems like a place where sailboats really don't belong (there appears to be only about 50 acres of water surface in that confined space.
As I have not been in that area personally, though this is what I assume to be true. I don't know where the property they were staying on is located. Even if they were staying to the north of the lines, as I said earlier, the wind on this lake shifts constantly. It's a true test of skills to manage it. I've been sailing off and on since I was 12 and this lake is one of the most challenging lakes I've been on.
They may be Eagle Scouts but they are still kids with a predictable inability to process all the risks. A knowledgeable adult boat master could have pre-declared the creek as a no-go zone and that would have triggered a response to abandon efforts to save the boat and instead swivel to safety. That kind of training process allows these young men to manage their safety. Senior Scouts would ID No-Go limits met, abandon and recover everyone Now. Clearly no one in this situation realized the risk and rewards. Screw the boat.
This was my assessment as well. I have told everyone who has asked me about it, I would not have let the boat in that area to begin with, however, the boat is secondary to any one person.
I operate a 50 ton crane on a regular basis so, I have a habit of looking up for this very risk.
metal hobie cat mast, wet kids and + 13 or 200 kVa line is a terrible and fatal combination. our small state park lake used to have high kVa power lines hanging over the marina access road, until someone driving a high boat on a trailer got electrocuted after he got hung up on the line and got out of his vehicle to check. the power company later raised all the lines going across the access road...
Just read the sad news about the third 11 year old scout who died yesterday. What a horrible tragedy. My heart goes out to all who were impacted by this senseless loss of life. 