Outboard Bracket

[mfourn20]

This is my first sailboat big enough to require an outboard so I'm not familiar with any over outboard bracket other than my own. Are they normally pretty tight, or have a lot of slop on the pivots?

Mine has tons of slop in it. Almost like it had bushing in the pivots that have severely degraded over time.

Yes, I know it's overpowered, it's what was on it.

 

[ilance]

I can see two issues: "overpowered" is probably less of an issue than the reinforcement behind that mount. Read up on it, and I think you'll find the conventional wisdom is that your stock Catalina bracket is going to be undersprung for the heavier motor.....(which probably isn't really that I of a thing.....you just have to help it more)......there's several ways to deal with that.

You'll probably need to go check out how well the mount itself is backed up on the transom. Some kinda G-10 backing plate, or metal angle, is probably in order.

As for the bushings, most of the people I have read have stripped the mount apart and gone to a good local hardware store to source some replacements on the cheap.

My boat didn't come with mount at all.....I just purchased a salt water approved "Fulton" mount.....with heavier springs.....because I intend to buy a new Tohatsu 6hp Sail-Pro when I get the boat in the water.

If it were mine, if look up how much the motor weighs, and source a mount that is designed to deal with its weight. Not because it'll be easier to lift, but because the stock mount looks kinda flimsy to me.....especially with that burly motor.

On the plus side: I don't think you'll have ANY issue with power! You could probably sell the 15, get a new little motor of your liking, and have cash in your pocket.....and a new mount!

(The Merc 15 is an awesome motor......in my area, that would bring $$$ from the driftboat guys!)

 

[syates]

I just installed a new one from catalina direct. It is pretty tight. It is one of the four spring models. I would really worry about a lot of slop.

 

[mfourn20]

The slop really isn't related to the transom mounting. That is secure, the backing plate is huge. It's a piece of solid wood about 1in thick and about 18x18in, and it's in great shape. All the slop is coming from the 8 pivots that make it raise.

As for picking the motor up, it hardly takes any effort. The engine is 75lb. I'll likely just end up replacing the bracket at the end of the season.

The current bracket looks just like the 2 spring catalina direct one...it says engines up to 80lb.

As for the engine I'm tempted to sell it for a 6hp 4 stroke w/alternator. I'd lose 20lb on the transom, and have a quieter, and more efficient engine. I have a 2 year old, and a wife who is very timid about sailing so I motor a lot with them.

 

[Leeward Rail]

I'm in the same boat. hehe

My mount doesn't have a lot of slop. If anything the bushings seem to bind a bit.
So yes they have bushings
Based on a forum post I remember from last year...there is a rebuilt kit available. I just don't remember where.
I believe that you can get extra springs.

It's not a priority right now for me, since the mount has a good backing plate and is solid enough.
Next winter I'll probably service it.
Personally, I'd not replace yours, unless it had some serious defects. If you swap it out for a different make, you would then have to fill the old holes, and drill new ones.

I have a mint condition Merc 15hp 2 Stroke, that was purchased by the previous owner as old stock from a dealer. I have used it 3 times. once while sailing, and I fired it up both springs while servicing it.

The plan is to sell it and buy a Tohatsu Sailpro. Thereby lowering weight, decreasing fuel consumption, and eliminating the hassle of mixing fuel.
I hope I can get a good price for it. I'm not 100% sure what it's worth. I believe I can get a new sailpro for about $500 CAD more than the what I can sell this one for.

 

[mfourn20]

eBay completed listings show what I would consider insane prices for old 15hp 2 strokes...I'm very hopeful...there was a 1975 15hp that sold recently for $900.

 

[Leeward Rail]

eBay completed listings show what I would consider insane prices for old 15hp 2 strokes...I'm very hopeful...there was a 1975 15hp that sold recently for $900.

Exactly. Locally I saw a merc around the same age as mine with way more hours, sell for $1100 USD. I can get a new Tohatsu Sailpro for $1350 USD in Canada.

 

[Leeward Rail]

Here's some background on the Motor Mounts that Catalina used on C22.
motor bracket history of design and development

 

[ilance]

I'm my area, we can still use 2-strokes......just can't buy a new one. Demand for small driftboat kickers is HUGE......and the 15's are viewed as king of the crop!

The Tohatsu is like $1500 to me......but my only other option is a $500 @4hp.......or more than $1500 for a late model 2-stroke!

I've got my childhood motor: (a Seagull) in the garage......and it'll likely get pressed into service on the sweet (though grossly overbuilt!) motor bracket I just got.

That will have to end when I convince the rest of the family that the boat will not sink......my recollection of the Seagull is that it is horribly uncovilized. I really need a quiet, ultimately reliable motor for security blanket purposes!

Fishermen here run their driftboat motors until they die......or put prop guards on them and bounce them off rocks in the Rogue River until they kill them! Honestly, I would have to go get a corroded motor from the Coast........but those guys use them up too.

Gosh darn it! I'll JUST HAVE to buy a new one!

 

[Leeward Rail]

Looks like Garelick has an exchange program for their motor mounts, since they won't sell the springs etc.
Some modern "BS" about being to dangerous etc. this type of stuff makes it hard for competent individuals to DIY.

Yet... I do remember seeing a post where someone rebuilt one.


EDIT:

Here are some links showing the problem with the old mounts.
Aluminium sleeves in the stainless tubes... galvanic corrosion for ya ?

http://goodshipellipsis.blogspot.ca/2013/08/catalina-22-motor-mount-repair-follow-up.html

Found it !
@CloudDiver posted the following after my similar question.

Roy,
If it is an OEM motor bracket, they were made by Garhauer. The newer bushings are made of bronze and they will sell you a kit. If you have the old plastic bushings in your motor mount that means there are aluminum spacers inside the tubes, they react with the stainless bolts and explode (expand and seize from the corrosion). A real PITA to get them out, but it can be done. Some pics and details are in my resto thread., look on pages 11, 12, & 14.

For the lazy.. here's a link to page 11 of his thread..
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/i...-of-1981-c-22-swing-keel-10580.166613/page-11

So it appears that Garelick and Garhauer made the mounts ?
They look very similar so I wonder how you tell which is which ?

Or course you could just get a new one from CD. Easiest, if the bolt holes line up.

 

[Leeward Rail]

I'm my area, we can still use 2-strokes......just can't buy a new one

Same here. The only place I know of that doesn't allow 2 strokes (but allows motors) are lakes in Canada's National Parks.

The old British Seagull motors are supposedly VERY reliable. Just noisy and spewing crap everywhere.

 

[dzl]

If the springs and everything else is fine with your original mount, just put new bushings in it. If you can't find any, pm me and I can spin you some new delrin ones on the lathe no problem.

As far as the 15, I'd seriously consider selling it and going with something smaller. Even if you do like to motor a lot (my wife does too) you can go just as fast with a 6 as the 15 likely... I've ran a 9.9 on mine and with the stock prop it was so overpropped it was horrible at slow speeds and wouldn't do more than 7 knots which computes out to something like 70% prop slip...

 

[CloudDiver]

@mfourn20 , I had some issues with my motor bracket as well. The problem is there are aluminum bushings around the stainless bolts and you know what happens... yup, bi-metal corrosion. It gets so bad the bracket is almost seized and or very sloppy. In my resto thread there are pictures of how I took mine apart and soaked it in descaled to get all the corrosion out. From Garhauer (the OEM) I was able to get a replacement bronze bushing set that gets rid of thee poor plastic ones. I left out the aluminum bushings and used larger bolts, 7/16 I believe. I just had to overdrive the mounting holes. The pin that was at the bottom holding the spring was bent, so I replaced with a long bolt as well. Anyway, whole thing works way more smooth now.
Yes, sell that 15 hp for no less than $900 and get a Tohatsu Sail Pro 6hp.

 

[mfourn20]

Thanks for the help. I had a feeling there were bushings in there that needed to be replaced. How much time did you put into rebuilding the bracket? I'm short on time, I've got a 2yr old. Sometimes I'd rather spend the money vs time.

 

[Benny17441]

Outboard motor mounts are rated for engine weight and not for horsepower. Some older models were rated for horsepower but only as a result of their relationship to the average weigh of the engines and they were two stroke at the time. We have a two stroke Nissan 9.8HP which is based on the same block and drive of the Nissan 15HP so their weight is similar (75 lbs.) and we have a similar mount to yours and it has plenty of slop as you call it. We have been in real rough conditions and even dunked the powerhead a few times under water and the motor mount held and it is still holding the engine after 15 yrs. I would say with no scientific base that a 75lbs. engine might reach a force of 150 lbs. under vertical acceleration so if you hang a twice the weight of your engine weight on the motor mount and it holds good that the slop should not be a concern. Do check the backing to the transom to minimize transom flex. The HP thrust force will be no problem as the water will give first before the transom does.

 

[mfourn20]

Thanks for all the help! I'm going to live with all the slop for now since the boat is in a slip and I don't feel like dealing with taking the bracket off mid season. I think I'll list the outboard for sale, it runs fantastic, I just had it tuned up and the dealer said it didn't really need anything. I also rebuilt the entire water pump assembly with a rebuild kit.

I know a 6hp will push the boat just fine. A Tahatsu 6hp sailpro is 20lb lighter, I'd love to lose 20lb hanging a foot off the transom for sailing performance reasons. Right now my transom just barely kisses the water in the slip. I bet losing 20lb will bring it completely clear. The engine will also be quieter, and burn less fuel. All high priorities since I motor quite a bit with my daughter and wife.

 

[CloudDiver]

@mfourn20 , there are some pics in resto thread starting on pg 11, then a few more pics in the pages following it through page 14.
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/i...-of-1981-c-22-swing-keel-10580.166613/page-11

I think the plastic bushings are the problem, an easy fix with an $80 kit of bronze bushings from Garhaurer. It is quite a project to remove the motor mount and tear it down. Your aluminum sleeves inside the tubes may not be as corroded as mine were if its only a freshwater boat. Hope that they are better condition so it is easier to disassemble. I had to soak the parts in an acid descaler for days, then cut the bolt heads off and pound them out with a punch on my bench vice. If you need to soak the parts and you don't have the acid welding cleaner that I use, CLR should work.

 

[mfourn20]

Thanks, helpful to see. Mine has always lived on a saltwater mooring but mine doesn't seem to have anywhere near the corrosion. Somehow every screw/bolt I've taken apart has spun off easily...I hope my outboard bracket is the same.

I'll likely try to rebuild the bracket this winter. I think my Catalina 22 will be only a 2 year boat for me. I bought it because I wasn't sure if my wife and 2 year old would like it. After a couple outings I think we're going to move up to a Catalina 27, or 30. They love it. So 100% opposite of you (clouddiver) I'm now throttling back on my restoration and slowing the money I put into it, but I've replaced quite a bit so far.

-all new standing rigging
-some new running rigging
-new lifelines and lifeline hardware + netting
-new mainsail cover
-new winch handles
-100% rebuilt epoxy coated and faired keel with new cable, new winch, new turning ball
-rebuilt the bridge deck to be stronger than before
-sanded bottom to gelcoat..applied new barrier coat and bottom paint...i had no blisters YAY!
-compounded hull, and cockpit, not the deck outside cockpit though, ran out of time before my slip was open
-ripped out electrical system, rebuilding now

 

[CloudDiver]

I think with what you have going and what you have already done that it will fetch a very good price when you trade up to a larger boat. The bracket job isn't too hard, just a weekend bench job. Good opportunity to get it rebidded when you put it back on so you know the bolts are water tight. If you swap out that 15 for a new SailPro 6hp that will be a huge selling factor.

Thanks, helpful to see. Mine has always lived on a saltwater mooring but mine doesn't seem to have anywhere near the corrosion. Somehow every screw/bolt I've taken apart has spun off easily...I hope my outboard bracket is the same.

I'll likely try to rebuild the bracket this winter. I think my Catalina 22 will be only a 2 year boat for me. I bought it because I wasn't sure if my wife and 2 year old would like it. After a couple outings I think we're going to move up to a Catalina 27, or 30. They love it. So 100% opposite of you (clouddiver) I'm now throttling back on my restoration and slowing the money I put into it, but I've replaced quite a bit so far.

-all new standing rigging
-some new running rigging
-new lifelines and lifeline hardware + netting
-new mainsail cover
-new winch handles
-100% rebuilt epoxy coated and faired keel with new cable, new winch, new turning ball
-rebuilt the bridge deck to be stronger than before
-sanded bottom to gelcoat..applied new barrier coat and bottom paint...i had no blisters YAY!
-compounded hull, and cockpit, not the deck outside cockpit though, ran out of time before my slip was open
-ripped out electrical system, rebuilding now