"Alert-Alert" ATTENTION ALL BOAT OWNERS

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Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
When anyone starts to yell the word sue, not the name Sue, words are cheap unless an investigation by metallurgist engineers is done with testing and results are produced to support any accusations with evidence. So far I only see words and no evidence to support any claim. In addition, I hope you have not only the evidence but the money to defend such a claim. Remember, there are many manufacturers who have deep pockets. Then if you do file litigation and fail to receive a favorable decision, just remember those companies who have named can and might file a counter claim for debization of character.

So far I see nothing to validate any claim so far. Further, I would not rely on sales agents, tech advisors and those without the proper credentials until a proper investigation is warranted and the evidence is there to support your claim. Then as many out there have suggested, frankly any metal will deteriorate over time and then we need to know the facts for each case to see if there is any liability on part of a manufacturer.

Years ago, metals from other countries not to name them had impurities in it. We know this but such a big stink was raised and with other countries in the foray, the quality improved; otherwise, those producers got into trouble when sales lagged due to that. We know the main culprit. However as a former sailboat dealer, I saw stainless over the past 40 plus years deteriorate for one reason and another. You are correct about UK and mostly German steel is the best. I had a knife made in china which was cheap and boy you could tell it after 6 months stored inside but that Pakistani knife I got, well they know how to make knifes and swords but the funny thing they use Soligen steel from all places, Germany.

When anyone does post an allegation, I look for supporting documentation which I did not see any so far. I use to be an investigator for insurance company prior to be a full time sailboat dealer which is why I look at things differently. Getting to the heart of the matter in any case with supporting evidence and documentation is the proper way instead of going out there making claims without that.
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Chief; without supporting investigative reports to support his theory, I would urge caution not to mention any names. That is it in a nut shell. We have no idea what, where purchased, whom he spoke with, correct screws or bolts unknown and the list goes on. I also handled a litigation unit as well so I know what I am saying here. Without supporting documentation to substantiate any theory, then get it and advise but make sure it would stand up in court. There are many unknowns here. I have said enough.
 
Oct 22, 2014
352
Pearson P303 #221 RockPort Maine
Crazy Dave, thanks for your input here on this subject! To me personally, I do not care about threats from "THE BIG GUYS!" I do however, care about safety witch brings us back to the Pinto story. Today's company's and products are held a little higher now mainly because of the internet. I've seen both products and company's come-and-go with word of mouth. My claim is simple here! Make identification labeling of product where, the consumers are able to make his or her decision as to what make or model to use for their needs. If I pick a product to use in my boat that claims are made by the manufacture's to be Highest-Grade SS-316 for harsh environments and you pay the big bucks for it.. Then, It should be the quality you expect and not "How Deep" your pockets are. There, will be no amount of money for lose of life in some cases. Many auto manufactures now realized that and have made changes to there MFG practices by introducing standards to be use in the manufacturing. Because of this, German made VW was caught cheating the system and now pays for it big-time with the lost of consumer trust. My wife had a VW Jetta, However, It's the last one we will own in our house. It will take many.. many years to regain what they lost in future sales. Dave, this could go on-and-on, and your right and I'm wrong, I'm right and your wrong.. Who really cares it's just NUT's, Screws and maybe a Washer or two! Hey if it's not broke, don't fix or maintain it. LOL Capt. Rob Oh! by the way the surgical screws installed in your body.. oops! maybe they will have another recall! You hope not.
 
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Oct 29, 2016
1,929
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
Stargazer, in less than 3 minutes research I have an explanation of properties of 316 SS, also known as, "Marine Grade".

"Corrosion Resistance
Excellent in a range of atmospheric environments and many corrosive media - generally more resistant than 304. Subject to pitting and crevice corrosion in warm chloride environments, and to stress corrosion cracking above about 60°C. Considered resistant to potable water with up to about 1000mg/L chlorides at ambient temperatures, reducing to about 500mg/L at 60°C.

316 is usually regarded as the standard “marine grade stainless steel”, but it is not resistant to warm sea water. In many marine environments 316 does exhibit surface corrosion, usually visible as brown staining. This is particularly associated with crevices and rough surface finish."

http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2382

You might want to reconsider you claims of misrepresentation and accept the fact that there is no material which resists corrosion completely at the same time providing mechanical integrity and structural performance.

https://greenwoodmagnetics.com/resource/what-is-the-difference-between-304-and-316-stainless-steel/

In the above explanation 316 Stainless Steel may become magnetic once cold worked (machining / thread cutting) is considered cold working.
Mark
 
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Oct 22, 2014
352
Pearson P303 #221 RockPort Maine
UPDATE! The company just offered a $$ cash settlement to me. Should I take it? However, I must agree not to disclose any more information. another words, get lost.
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
That's probably too close to the arena where this thread will go away... Just sayin.
 

pateco

.
Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
UPDATE! The company just offered a $$ cash settlement to me. Should I take it? However, I must agree not to disclose any more information. another words, get lost.
If it will pay for the repair replacement of their product/work, that indicates they stand behind it, and would be acceptable to me.
This is just my opinion.
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,929
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
Take and run Stargazer! you could use it to buy a shovel to clean up this mess, or better yet you could give it to us to shovel up all the crap on this thread.
 
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Apr 8, 2010
2,238
Ericson Yachts Olson 34 28400 Portland OR
I have watched this metals "problem" unfold through at least three decades. Much sympathy for the end customers (like us) and the riggers (friends) who are caught in the middle. Same for even the most conscientious boat yards.
No ready solution to offer, have I.

Interesting (to me anyway) just how OLD the problem is when I recall my summer job at a rare-metal refining company in the early 60's where they absolutely Had to have the most trustworthy SS fasteners on all of the parts/systems that handled corrosives... and I still recall that ALL of the heavily-vetted hardware was clearly stamped, in tiny little fonts: "316". Every. Little. Quarter-twenty nut and bolt. (!)

Also brings to mind President Lincoln's bitter complaints about the very poor quality shoes being delivered to Union soldiers. He called the situation "the age of shoddy".
:(
 
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Oct 22, 2014
352
Pearson P303 #221 RockPort Maine
Stargazer, in less than 3 minutes research I have an explanation of properties of 316 SS, also known as, "Marine Grade".

"Corrosion Resistance
Excellent in a range of atmospheric environments and many corrosive media - generally more resistant than 304. Subject to pitting and crevice corrosion in warm chloride environments, and to stress corrosion cracking above about 60°C. Considered resistant to potable water with up to about 1000mg/L chlorides at ambient temperatures, reducing to about 500mg/L at 60°C.

316 is usually regarded as the standard “marine grade stainless steel”, but it is not resistant to warm sea water. In many marine environments 316 does exhibit surface corrosion, usually visible as brown staining. This is particularly associated with crevices and rough surface finish."

http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=2382

You might want to reconsider you claims of misrepresentation and accept the fact that there is no material which resists corrosion completely at the same time providing mechanical integrity and structural performance.

Mark
Mark thanks for the great information here. Like you stated in your post "SS-316 Marine Grade" is the key word here. So why not have it labeled so. They are many types (grades) of stainless out there 316, 304, 217 .. etc. not to exclude 316Marine-Grade. However, If you buy, and are led to believe the packages makes claim to be high-grade stainless steel and without the numbers like 316 on the packages then you really don't know.. Its a crap-shoot. Misleading words are High-Grade!
So without the "numbers" high-grade has really no meaning. To the consumer making a decision on quality for their use and, in their environment there needs to be full disclosure as to what in the BLACK-BOX...lol
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,929
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
Mark thanks for the great information here. Like you stated in your post "SS-316 Marine Grade" is the key word here. So why not have it labeled so. They are many types (grades) of stainless out there 316, 304, 217 .. etc. not to exclude 316Marine-Grade. However, If you buy, and are led to believe the packages makes claim to be high-grade stainless steel and without the numbers like 316 on the packages then you really don't know.. Its a crap-shoot. Misleading words are High-Grade!
So without the "numbers" high-grade has really no meaning. To the consumer making a decision on quality for their use and, in their environment there needs to be full disclosure as to what in the BLACK-BOX...lol
Stargazer you missed the point, if you read the article you will see that even, "Marine Grade" Stainless Steel will rust / stain in certain conditions. The second article is a link to explain the magnetic properties.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
352
Pearson P303 #221 RockPort Maine
Thanks DayDeamer41, I do understand the point here! However, all us sailors and boater's have over the years know what's good for our environment and we call it "Marine-Grade 316". You know that just going down to your local hardware store and buying bolts, screws.. etc.. for your boat. The chances of you getting Marine Grade SS=316 are slim.. However, there is some reasonable responsibility of the vendor's to disclose to the consumer that key factor. Your life may count on it especially, if its used for life-lines, motor mounts and the list goes on. The minimum I will settle for is all stores must post sign's as to the grades and types they are selling. I don't care about the money. I care about you, being able to be here and On-Line safe... Capt. Rob
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,092
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Use titanium. If they can make cheap golf clubs out of Ti then it should be great for marine parts.
 
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jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
24,523
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
In the 70's I had the opportunity to work for a company making steel mill lab equipment to test on the production floor the quality of the steel in the furnace. Since then the company has dramatically changed leaving the steel industry as it died in the US for other industries that can use their technology.
Go into any Box store with a magnet and you will find their supply of "Stainless" sticking to your magnet and the customers are no wiser.
As a boat owner I need to be specific with what I select for my boat. What I choose will impact the maintenance schedule I will need to follow. It is no longer a world where we can say fix it and assume it is fixed for 10 plus years. It will always be the little things that breakdown first. and from there it will be a cascade of events. No amount of litigation will solve the problem. The mass of boat buyers go forth unknowing.
SBO and our forum may enlighten some and that is a very good thing.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
352
Pearson P303 #221 RockPort Maine
John.. Here..Here! SBO and our forum may enlighten some and that is a very good thing.
 

SBO Police Bot

Staff member
Jan 8, 2016
29
None None
Well done, guys. I see there is a pending resolve to this issue. So, to prevent any "way off topic" discussions we will close this thread. Good luck StargazerP303.
 
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