H26 owners: I need a measurement please
- Thread starter rgranger
- Start date
Rgranger,
I think I misunderstood you. I was saying I use the barber hauler when close hauled into the wind to pull the boom in a little to help the boat point a little higher.
If you're having a heeling issue on a beam reach or broad reach you need to let the sail out. It may be that you're used to being able to let the main out farther than you now can with the swept back spreaders therfore you're overpowered. You must reef the main. These boats actually slow down when on there ear. I have found the fastest point of sail on my boat is with the wind a little forward of the beam. Again, your new main should also help.
I think I misunderstood you. I was saying I use the barber hauler when close hauled into the wind to pull the boom in a little to help the boat point a little higher.
If you're having a heeling issue on a beam reach or broad reach you need to let the sail out. It may be that you're used to being able to let the main out farther than you now can with the swept back spreaders therfore you're overpowered. You must reef the main. These boats actually slow down when on there ear. I have found the fastest point of sail on my boat is with the wind a little forward of the beam. Again, your new main should also help.
I have never been a fan of adding a traveler to the hunter water ballast boats. First, installation is precarious as the inside ceiling liner is not structural sound as it is held with marine putty in places. The ceiling will flex and thus other problems will ensue. The only suggestion is a longer traveler installed in front of the companionway as many have done. There are ways but I will not go into how to properly install.. Secondly regardless if removable or not, people do trip over a traveler when installed in the cockpit either across the seat to seat or in the floor. It is a liability waiting to happen. Then the length is not really long enough in the cockpit floor area to recommend one there. Then I look at the B&R rig with a larger main than a standard one which I feel more than adequately gives you control that I found a traveler is not needed as the boat points high into the wind to begin with. I have been told by some of the best in the industry they agree.
Kermit has told me the previous owner installed one in front of the companionway and the ceiling is compressed where the bolts protrude thru the inside. Rob, if you are still bent bound and determined I will privately explain what to do on installation. I am not a fan of travelers and never found a need for it on the 26 and 260. Ok folks go ahead and disagree but the only thing I will agree is to disagree.
Kermit has told me the previous owner installed one in front of the companionway and the ceiling is compressed where the bolts protrude thru the inside. Rob, if you are still bent bound and determined I will privately explain what to do on installation. I am not a fan of travelers and never found a need for it on the 26 and 260. Ok folks go ahead and disagree but the only thing I will agree is to disagree.
Carry on, rgranger. A traveler will help ANY boat point better. Full stop. Fractional boats even more so.
Getting the boom to the center line without totally removing all twist is key to optimizing mainsail performance.
Boats without travelers (or genoa tracks) are simply designed to have sub-optimal performance. The product marketing guys know this... they know their target market, and spec/price the boats accordingly. There is no silver bullet.
Getting the boom to the center line without totally removing all twist is key to optimizing mainsail performance.
Boats without travelers (or genoa tracks) are simply designed to have sub-optimal performance. The product marketing guys know this... they know their target market, and spec/price the boats accordingly. There is no silver bullet.
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Jackdaw;
As always you give good advice and with your general statement of the use of travelers, I concur but when someone knows the boat model specifically like I do, I speak from experience and knowledge on the specific boat model.
boat.
The interior ceiling liner is not structurally attached to the deck pan but rather secured in places with marine putty to the deck. Thus thru bolting will only cause the ceiling to collapse. There are ways around it and that I will share with Rob as I know that boat all too well since I am the one who sold it and maintained it for years. However, there were two instances where a traveler was placed in the floor I recall and one was removable. The one removable did collapse the interior ceiling line with leaks and that portion of the deck being pulled outward due to track bent upward when the boom violently jerked in severe weather to one side as I repaired it. On another, a client's wife tripped over several times arguing it was in the way. It was removed when she fell hitting her knee which fractured.
If a person wants to install one, the longer the better and the most appropriate position is on the seat in front of the companionway and it is secured downward as well putting the load across the deck. Yes there are ways to attach and avoid the ceiling liner collapsing. I know Kermit has mentioned that due to the previous owner installed it, not me as I sold that boat originally as well.
As for the specific model, I was taught by a friend of mine how to sail without a traveler on the 26 due to what was mentioned earlier. He use to race in the Med. and even Bars L part of the B & R on this specific model did not feel a traveler would help either. I use to race against other boats to include J boats even flying a spinnaker and won with a new boat out of the box.
As I said earlier, I only refer to a specific model based on knowledge and experience but if an owner wants to add gear, that is their choice and will then advise on ways to install appropriately. Like I said we concour with your general overall assessment of travelers but on this specific model I saw no need based on experience backed by many in the manufacturing end.
As always you give good advice and with your general statement of the use of travelers, I concur but when someone knows the boat model specifically like I do, I speak from experience and knowledge on the specific boat model.
boat.
The interior ceiling liner is not structurally attached to the deck pan but rather secured in places with marine putty to the deck. Thus thru bolting will only cause the ceiling to collapse. There are ways around it and that I will share with Rob as I know that boat all too well since I am the one who sold it and maintained it for years. However, there were two instances where a traveler was placed in the floor I recall and one was removable. The one removable did collapse the interior ceiling line with leaks and that portion of the deck being pulled outward due to track bent upward when the boom violently jerked in severe weather to one side as I repaired it. On another, a client's wife tripped over several times arguing it was in the way. It was removed when she fell hitting her knee which fractured.
If a person wants to install one, the longer the better and the most appropriate position is on the seat in front of the companionway and it is secured downward as well putting the load across the deck. Yes there are ways to attach and avoid the ceiling liner collapsing. I know Kermit has mentioned that due to the previous owner installed it, not me as I sold that boat originally as well.
As for the specific model, I was taught by a friend of mine how to sail without a traveler on the 26 due to what was mentioned earlier. He use to race in the Med. and even Bars L part of the B & R on this specific model did not feel a traveler would help either. I use to race against other boats to include J boats even flying a spinnaker and won with a new boat out of the box.
As I said earlier, I only refer to a specific model based on knowledge and experience but if an owner wants to add gear, that is their choice and will then advise on ways to install appropriately. Like I said we concour with your general overall assessment of travelers but on this specific model I saw no need based on experience backed by many in the manufacturing end.
Hey Dave,
I totally agree that the design and construction of a particular boat can make adding a traveler hard, impractical, or even impossible. Maybe the 26 is in that group. I don't know, you'd know better.
But I am sure that EVERY boat will perform better upwind with a traveler. The sail position you can achieve with a traveler cannot be replicated without one. That makes the boat faster, and point better. I would be very interested in any professional option to the contrary.
One thing I do know about is the product design and marketing process. I've been in that all my professional life.
Products are spec'ed by product managers, based on market requirements for a particular segment. Then they are designed by engineers, based on a balance of performance, function, and price. Input from the sales side is factored in for valuable VOC ( voice of the customer) input.
The resulting product is result of all that input. The inevitable trade-offs are presented as positives in ALL connumcations to the sales channel. In effect, the product team creates the exact story they want the customer to hear. So of course they are going to say 'this boat was designed to sail optimally without a traveler'. But the simple fact is (and they know this) is that it would be better WITH one. It just didn't fix the spec. Indeed, this boat (due to extra cost and inconvenience ) might have sold WORSE with one. So well done Hunter product team.
I've done this sort of things 100s of times. You tell the channel exactly what we want the customer to hear. You don't tell them all the trade-offs that led to those decisions.
I totally agree that the design and construction of a particular boat can make adding a traveler hard, impractical, or even impossible. Maybe the 26 is in that group. I don't know, you'd know better.
But I am sure that EVERY boat will perform better upwind with a traveler. The sail position you can achieve with a traveler cannot be replicated without one. That makes the boat faster, and point better. I would be very interested in any professional option to the contrary.
One thing I do know about is the product design and marketing process. I've been in that all my professional life.
Products are spec'ed by product managers, based on market requirements for a particular segment. Then they are designed by engineers, based on a balance of performance, function, and price. Input from the sales side is factored in for valuable VOC ( voice of the customer) input.
The resulting product is result of all that input. The inevitable trade-offs are presented as positives in ALL connumcations to the sales channel. In effect, the product team creates the exact story they want the customer to hear. So of course they are going to say 'this boat was designed to sail optimally without a traveler'. But the simple fact is (and they know this) is that it would be better WITH one. It just didn't fix the spec. Indeed, this boat (due to extra cost and inconvenience ) might have sold WORSE with one. So well done Hunter product team.
I've done this sort of things 100s of times. You tell the channel exactly what we want the customer to hear. You don't tell them all the trade-offs that led to those decisions.
Jackdaw;
I too was in essence in sales and marketing too but the design of the Hunter water ballast was specific one which one person could handle, less weight to tow, practicality and so on. I should know, it was I who set the standard for these boats, not Hunter because I needed such a product for inland sailing and it caught on. You have no idea as to the contributions I gave to this industry because I did not want the recognition, rather a product for inland sailing among other things. Enough said. Now to clearing of brush for the rest of the day on my mountain
I too was in essence in sales and marketing too but the design of the Hunter water ballast was specific one which one person could handle, less weight to tow, practicality and so on. I should know, it was I who set the standard for these boats, not Hunter because I needed such a product for inland sailing and it caught on. You have no idea as to the contributions I gave to this industry because I did not want the recognition, rather a product for inland sailing among other things. Enough said. Now to clearing of brush for the rest of the day on my mountain
Please leave the crowbar in the house. I don't want to hear about you and crowbars ever again.
That reminds me of the gold medal I won in the Olympics. I was so excited I had it bronzed.
You have a text sent to you and if you even put either one on the forum I will go giggin. YOu will understand when you see them.