Measure Twice...Head-ache

[Rick D]

Well, don't make my mistake. I (finally) purchased a Raritan manual head to replace my 22 year-old $1200 Jabsco. There is a new model that has the same footprint as the Jabsco. One less issue. Firstly, the Raritan is a fine piece of construction. It's pretty robust and the telescopic handle is a big improvement for compact installations. Out went the Jabsco and in went the Raritan. The only issue is that it's impossible to hook up the discharge without major fiberglass and plumbing modification (in my particular boat). While I looked over the manual before I got it, and compared measurements, I didn't count on just how inflexible my installation was. It was literally built around the Jabsco. The outlet and holding tank hoses both exit from the under-sink area via the same hole. The holding tank hose runs across the back of the toilet shelf to another hole where it runs to the tank. The discharge hose extends about five inches out of the cabinet wall to connect exactly with the Jabsco which has a tail piece which exits the pump at a downward angle and has about a 60-70 degree angle vs. the Raritan 90 degree and flat exit. The Raritan also exits higher by an inch or so. My point is to keep these variances in mind while you evaluate a change.
Meanwhile, I have a great buy at the next swap meet. It isn't worth going to the two-day project to cut, re-plumb and re-fit while moving the pump to the other side. And, to add to thatI damaged the Jabsco pump when I reinstalled it, so I have another on order. My mistake, take care.

 

[Ted]

Sorry for your troubles with the Jabsco to Raritan toilet retrofit. While Raritan implies that their toilet is a simple swap, it's not. I looked into replacing my Jabsco toilet with a Raritan and discovered that the location of the discharge outlet was different and would not work with my installation without some unexpected reconfiguring. Too bad Raritan didn't foresee this issue. It's been a problem with some of my friend's boats also. So it's time to rebuild the Jabsco. No big deal!

 

[jibes138]

Please clarify for me, you mention a discharge hose and a separate holding tank hose. Doesn't your discharge hose go directly to the holding tank?

 

[Rich Stidger]

Rick,

Exactly what Raritan model did you get and did it really cost $1200?

 

[Rick D]

Please clarify for me, you mention a discharge hose and a separate holding tank hose. Doesn't your discharge hose go directly to the holding tank?

To clarify, the discharge hose goes under the sink cabinet to a Y-valve and then to an anti-siphon loop and then back out of the cabinet, along the back of the head,

and then to the holding tank. Here is one photo of the Jabsco in place. It is hard to tell in the photo, but the hose to connect the discharge is under the long holding tank hose. The distances are deceiving and the clearance needed for the Raritan tail piece isn't there, the angle is too acute and the pump outlet way too high. Another photo shows the Raritan in place.

 

[Rick D]

Rick,

Exactly what Raritan model did you get and did it really cost $1200?

I got the Superflush. PHll with a Jabsco compatible base. It wasn't the Raritan that cost $1200. It was the Jabsco - over 18 years. The only original part is the bowl. Actually, it has gotten more reliable in the last few years. I counted $$ up to about $1000 and I am guessing since then.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Rick, It's the flush water inlet line that gives most people a problem...the inlet fitting is on the front of the Raritan pump. First I've heard of the discharge fitting causing a problem...and I think the replacing the discharge tailpiece with one you can aim the right direction MIGHT be the answer. Let's talk before you give up on it...send me a PM and I'll reply with my phone number.

It wasn't the Raritan that cost $1200. It was the Jabsco - over 18 years. The only original part is the bowl.

Rick always replaced his Jabsco pump every year...we had a standing joke starting about the 7th year that he'd spent enough to buy several Raritan PH IIs. He promised that he'd switch when the total got to $1000...he's only 2-3 years late! And now he's trying to find a way to wiggle out!

 

[Calif. Ted]

On the Catalina's I've done the discharge hose exits the other direction thank goodness, because in your picture that "exit" elbow definitely won't fit.
I wonder if you could rotate the bowl 180 on the base so the pump is on the left hand side, you'd have to rotate the pump also so it faced forward, could be done maybe but might not help.
BTW I've always ended up replacing those black rubber hoses connected to the head while doing the change. They usually are full of scale inside.

 

[Rick D]

On the Catalina's I've done the discharge hose exits the other direction thank goodness, because in your picture that "exit" elbow definitely won't fit.
I wonder if you could rotate the bowl 180 on the base so the pump is on the left hand side, you'd have to rotate the pump also so it faced forward, could be done maybe but might not help.
BTW I've always ended up replacing those black rubber hoses connected to the head while doing the change. They usually are full of scale inside.

Flipping the bowl and pump and replacing the outlet hose and moving it from bottom to top might be a solution. I would have to fill and jell coat the shelf holes since all the mounting would be different, but that's not a big deal. I will have to remove the bowl and put it in place to see if there is enough room with the holding tank hose in its current place. That said, it's a two to three day job. I have to get prepared for that and figure out if that's worth it, considering all the other renovations I'm working on.

 

[jibes138]

My outlet fitting (Groco head) is a 90 degree so it faces down and the hose comes up from underneath. Maybe you can get a 90 degree fitting and route the hose so it lines up. Perhaps Raritan will sell the part that way or maybe the Groco part will fit the outlet on the Raritan?

 

[Rick D]

My outlet fitting (Groco head) is a 90 degree so it faces down and the hose comes up from underneath. Maybe you can get a 90 degree fitting and route the hose so it lines up. Perhaps Raritan will sell the part that way or maybe the Groco part will fit the outlet on the Raritan?

The Raritan came with a 90 degree tail piece. The issue is that the Jabsco is not. There are multiple angles at work that intersect my very short stub of an outlet hose just so .

 

[Calif. Ted]

FWIW I just fill unused bolt holes with Marine-tex, only 1 or 2 end up showing anyway. Hopefully Peggie can suggest some tail piece that will work more easily than rebuilding the head compartment.
Recently helped a friend fix a Jabsco that he's spent $600 in 6 years for "professionals" to fix including a replacement. 20 kts. of wind and when we get to the boat for the "beer cans" he says "I'm having a little trouble with the head again after that corporate charter I did last week". So of course the gravity feed tank in his French boat has overflowed the bowl and into the shower sump. No racing for me. Pump did nothing, so after going to the pump-out and passing it thru the portlight into the head and sucking the muck out we started at the joker. I had a new tailpiece and J valve in my spares but that didn't do it. Taking the top off the pump revealed 3 of 6 mounting screws had broken the plastic mounts and valves and gaskets were toast. $100 pump from Worst Marine and works like a charm. He says "It's the first time the head has worked in the 6 years I've had this boat, I've lost count of how many times I hired people to fix it". Now I just got to convince him it's safe to use, he's marked it "OFF LIMITS" and is still pissing over the side.

 

[jibes138]

Rick D perhaps you can consider reconfiguring to simplify. I use a Y-valve to empty the tank either overboard through a thru hull with a macerator pump or through a deck fitting for a pump out. All waste goes directly to the holding tank. Can you reconfigure to eliminate the Y-valve that I assume lets you to dump directly overboard? Could the hose to the holding tank then be made to fit your Raritan? This takes a lot of complexity out of your system and thus fewer things that can go wrong.

 

[Rick D]

Update: I was working on some electrical gremlins that took priority over this installation. Here's what I am going to try when I have the other projects tucked away: I looked and think I can take the outlet house to the top of the hose going to the holding tank. That will give me elevation. I'll order that super-flexible hose Raritan sells to help. Then, I will try to modify the Jabsco tail piece to fit the Raritan flange. I checked it when I did my last install attempt and the Jabsco was just ever-so-slightly larger in circumference. I think I can bore out the Raritan flange to fit. All the other measurements appeared to be the same. That will give me the angle I need. If this works, I'll post the fix. I'm tired of tripping over this thing in my garage and am not yet prepared to either surrender or cut away more fiberglass.