New Hardware on Deck -- Avoid Cutting Interior Liner?

[CloudDiver]

BTW, for toe stub prevention, use the plastic end caps on either end of the track. I drill a pilot hole for the single screw and epoxy pot that hole and re-pilot drill, it is NOT a thru deck hole; 1/2" to 5/8" screw max I bed the track but not the end cap. No need to bed the end-cap screw because the hole is epoxy potted and not thru the deck, but you could put a small ball of butyl tape on the screw if you really wanted to. Anyway, holds the end cap secure but easy to remove without risk of leaks to get the car off when needed.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

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When ever you see bent genoa track, it is a compromise to the hull-deck layout and the desire to use a single track for a huge range of sail sizes, and not optimal sheeting angle.

All great points, thanks!
With regard to the compromise, yes, I can see that now. My tracks are mounted at the outer edge of the deck under the lifelines. I now realize why the 110 genoa has such a high clew ... the track is so far back that the clew has to be 6' off the deck for the right lead angle to control twist! Consequently, the clew and sheet are wayyyy outboard even when close-hauled and tacking angles are miserable. Don't talk to me about barber-haulers ... I don't have the patience for them.
The 150 genoa is better, but the sheets want to be inboard of the lifelines when close-hauled, but crack off just a bit and the sheets are hard-pressed against the lifelines and need to be outside. Consequently, I normally sail with sheets outside the lifelines even though the foot of the sail is then all messed up when close-hauled.
How do I determine optimal track locations for a variety of sail sizes - based on the suitable number and location of tracks and how do I plan which sails specific tracks are to be used for? I'm thinking that I want to set tracks before purchasing new sails. I'll start by assuming that the original tracks on the outside of the deck will be left in place and I have a masthead rig ... but where do I go from there? I want to avoid the compromises and set up for the optimal positions for the sails that I am likely to purchase.

 

[rardiH36]

You will be drilling two holes: One will be for the through bolt, and the other will be for core removal. The bolt hole will be your pilot hole for the core hole. Do not penetrate the liner with the core hole. Tape the bolt hole on the liner and fill the core hole with epoxy. I like West System Six in the self mixing tube. Level and when set apply the butyl tape on the footprint of the track and bolt it down. There are any number of ways to dress up the bolt ends; acorn nuts, nut covers etc.

Hello Gunni:

Thanks for the good info. But could you provide some more description to be sure I understand and so I might adapt for "variations on the theme".

- The bolts will be 5/16" diameter so I presume that the core hole will be say 1/2" in diameter? Would 5/8" be better? (I am using a 1 1/4" T-track.) Then after the epoxy injected into the core hole sets, I would re-drill the 5/16" bolt hole through the epoxy "plug"?

- I will need to drill an exploratory hole, but I am pretty certain that my boat has a gap between the deck's lower FRP layer and the liner. So after the bolt hole is drilled all the way through, I will use a 1" bit from underneath to widen the bolt hole in the liner so I can put on the tape to prevent the core hole epoxy from oozing out the deck's bottom FRP layer. And so I can put on the fender washers and the nuts. So in my case, the depth of the core hole will be only to, but not through the deck's bottom FRP layer.

- Another thought. Instead of epoxy into a larger diameter (than the bolt) core hole, would flooding just the bolt hole (first drilled only to the depth of bottom FRP layer) with penetrating epoxy provide enough protection from future water damage to the core in the event the butyl tape's seal becomes compromised at some point? As I described in my opening post, I am pretty sure that my deck's core is plywood rather than balsa. (This because plywood is what I discovered when I removed the top skin of my wet core cockpit sole. The wood itself was still hard, not rotted, and was still tenaciously adhered to the top and bottom FRP layers ... it took me several hours with a sharp wood chisel and then a power sander to get all the plywood out. The water ingress through the pedestal and guardrail bolt holes however had caused the glue bonds between the plywood layers itself to separate.) Back to the T-track mounting project, since my deck's core likely is plywood, seems I might not need to be as concerned about the core material compressing/deforming around the bolts, as I would if the core was balsa? So is an epoxy core hole as necessary? Obviously I am looking to save a step or two if possible. Your thoughts?

Again thanks.

 

[rardiH36]

Why not carefully remove the headliner? If its 36 years old then the adhesive is probably tired, the material may be too. If it isn't too much of a chore to remove various trim pieces you can carefully peel or scrape the headliner down. It might be time for new material, or just clean up and re-install the headliner if it was the good stuff that is still viable. Either way, you don't have to grind down the headliner, just a good sanding with 80 grit to remove the loose or flaking old adhesive and then use 3M spray adhesive to reinstall the headliner after the hardware is installed. Good time to check all the other hardware too, epoxy pot and re-bed as required.

Hello CloudDiver:

Thanks for the headliner removal idea. Wish that I could remove a section and then re-install. However my boat's interior upper liner is one huge gelcoat finished piece of molded fiberglass than spans the entire interior. All the way fore/aft and all across port/starboard. It's pretty impressive really!

 

[Gunni]

So after the bolt hole is drilled all the way through, I will use a 1" bit from underneath to widen the bolt hole in the liner so I can put on the tape to prevent the core hole epoxy from oozing out the deck's bottom FRP layer.

You have it upside down. You drill both the pilot hole, and the core-removal hole from above. The inner skin on the bottom contains the epoxy fill (with tape of the pilot hole).

The bolts will be 5/16" diameter so I presume that the core hole will be say 1/2" in diameter? Would 5/8" be better?

5/8" would be better.

Instead of epoxy into a larger diameter (than the bolt) core hole, would flooding just the bolt hole (first drilled only to the depth of bottom FRP layer) with penetrating epoxy provide enough protection from future water damage to the core in the event the butyl tape's seal becomes compromised at some point?

You really don't want to compromise your deck core. Fixing that would make whatever time you saved taking a shortcut seem like a bad idea. Remove the core, fill with epoxy, re-align your drill template and re-drill your bolt holes through the epoxy.

 

[rardiH36]

You have it upside down. You drill both the pilot hole, and the core-removal hole from above. The inner skin on the bottom contains the epoxy fill (with tape of the pilot hole).

5/8" would be better.

You really don't want to compromise your deck core. Fixing that would make whatever time you saved taking a shortcut seem like a bad idea. Remove the core, fill with epoxy, re-align your drill template and re-drill your bolt holes through the epoxy.

Gunni: Thanks for the further instructions. I will go the proper and "core safe" safe route for sure! I think I have enough West Systems epoxy left from my last project to fill the 28 or so core holes that the 10' (5' on each side) of T-rail will require. If not, then off to West Marine to get some more... or a tube of self mixing Six that you suggested.

 

[Ken Cross]

That's where I was going with an earlier post ... I want to use a nice piece of wood on the interior as a backing plate but I would recess the nuts and cover with bungs. I did a similar install to reinforce my bulkheads where the edges of the original plywood was weakening (as shown in the photo). I could even use the new wood backing plate on the inside to fasten interior handholds (which I presently don't have) just over the windows.

With regard to the curve, I know how to install the curve by progressing from one end to the other, but I don't know how it would be possible to use bedding tape underneath the track without creating a mess. So I figured the solution would be to pot the holes so that I don't have bolts exposed to wood core.

On our boat I put the bolts through the track and put butyl tape around each bolt to hold them on the track. Once that was done I installed beginning at the end with the most severe bend and just started each fastener then went back and secured them. It seemed to work without leaks.
Ken