Missing Sailor & Family, Sanibel Island

Don S/V ILLusion

Don S/V ILLusion

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Sep 25, 2008
7,688
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
The day they left was decent weather with no severe weather forecast but, as some of you know, conditions in Florida this time of year can and did change. We did a short day sail the same day they departed and conditions were fine so for those too eager to make snap judgments, he did nothing wrong.

For anyone critical of a father living with his kids aboard, that is simply ignorant. This family tried to stay together despite some challenges you have no concept of and were living aboard out of necessity. $150 for a new radio plus the cost of coax and antenna represents eating food for a week for this family.

I knew this family. This is a sad situation. I find the criticism here is not just uninformed but also rather sickening.
 
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kerryedwards

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Mar 27, 2016
52
Corsair F-24 denver
It is very sad. Often times peoples' questions and speculations arise from the fact that they fear the same thing might happen to them and are trying to figure out how to avoid it. Since you knew the family, can you answer any of the questions people are raising. Why offshore and not inshore? Why no VHF? Did they think it was unnecessary in the age of cellphones? They did make one successful cellphone call. Were the intended repairs major or minor? Were they experienced mariners?
 
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Skipper

Skipper

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Oct 9, 2008
1,742
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
Don S/V ILLusion said:
The day they left was decent weather with no severe weather forecast but, as some of you know, conditions in Florida this time of year can and did change. We did a short day sail the same day they departed and conditions were fine so for those too eager to make snap judgments, he did nothing wrong.

For anyone critical of a father living with his kids aboard, that is simply ignorant. This family tried to stay together despite some challenges you have no concept of and were living aboard out of necessity. $150 for a new radio plus the cost of coax and antenna represents eating food for a week for this family.

I knew this family. This is a sad situation. I find the criticism here is not just uninformed but also rather sickening.
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You quoted some of my text so I'll assume you've directed part of your rant at me.
I specifically said if it's true. And that I merely didn't understand the lack of a radio, if in fact there was a lack. I also stated that kayaks take second over a VHF. Food is not in discussion here.
I even gave the poor guy the benefit of doubt, if the post is read correctly. The fact is that I or anyone here could have ended up the same way in his circumstances.
We all feel bad about this incident. Discussing safety priorities in any situation, including poverty, is far from "ignorant". For its possible that others reading these comments, in a similar situation, can learn from these discussions, and avoid another tragedy. Attacking fellow forum members certainly will not.
 
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kerryedwards

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Mar 27, 2016
52
Corsair F-24 denver
Is there any evidence the boat was a derelict? In the picture, the boat doesn't look in poor shape, but that could be deceiving.
 
justsomeguy

justsomeguy

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Feb 20, 2011
8,062
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Don S/V ILLusion said:
For anyone critical of a father living with his kids aboard, that is simply ignorant. This family tried to stay together despite some challenges you have no concept of and were living aboard out of necessity. $150 for a new radio plus the cost of coax and antenna represents eating food for a week for this family.
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Well said.
 
mz4wheeler

mz4wheeler

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Mar 11, 2015
357
Hunter 33.5 Tacoma, WA
No VHF, EPIRB, life raft, or sea anchor. We all take risks in life, and MOST of the time we get away with it; or have a close call and we learn. You don't need insurance until you do. You don't need an EPIRB until you do. Yes, they cost money, but so does a cell phone plan.

Why EPIRBs are "optional equipment" for offshore, I'll never know.
 
isaksp00

isaksp00

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Apr 27, 2010
1,279
Hunter 23 Lake Wallenpaupack
I won't comment on judgment or preparedness as I don't know the circumstances.

I did just notice the boat was supposedly a Seafarer. I worked one summer in about 1971 at the Seafarer factory in Huntington, LI (I assume there is only one Seafarer sailboat manufacturer). IMHO, these were poorly made/designed boats. An Atlantic had the deck pull right off the hull while sailing around that time. The models that were around 30 ft or so, that I worked on, had no chainplates per se - there were u-bolts through the deck (upper and inner liner), and I don't even think there was a backing plate - just fender washers, if I recall. The shrouds were thus fixed to the deck, and the only thing holding the deck (and thus sail loads) to the hull was a channel between the upturned deck edge and edge of the hull that was "glued" with epoxy mixed with chopped glass - no metal fasteners of any type between deck and hull. The sidelights were some sort of plastic (acrylic?) that had molded in "frames", and were screwed with wood screws into the glass on the deck sides, using a caulk to seal. In other words, no metal frames bolted through. Just saying - may have contributed.
 
BigEasy

BigEasy

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Jun 21, 2004
3,116
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
I am certainly not going to be critical of the Father and second guess his decisions, he likely thought that he was doing the best he could for his kids. However, this entire event just makes me sick. I would have certainly done things differently; however, I tend to be overcautious when boating. Hopefully we can learn something from this tragedy to be more safe and do the right thing for our friends & family who put their trust & lives in our hands when we take them sailing. Next time we do a hop, don't forget about this incident and the consequences of being ill prepared. Do we have the knowledge & experience to do the trip safely? Is the weather forecast conducive for the duration of the trip? Is the boat seaworthy and up for a trip offshore if all goes to hell? Do we have adequate quality and quantity of offshore PFD's, tethers, and jacklines? Have we tested the inflatable PFD's to make sure that the CO2 cylinders are in spec & the vests are leak free? Do we have an offshore life raft with a ditch bag containing up to date flares, an EPIRB, and a VHF radio with DSC capability? Some were critical of not having a VHF on the boat; how many of us are still using old VHF's that are ten years and older that are not equipped with DSC technology? "its only $150." .......And, the list goes on.
May the Good Lord grant these innocent kids everlasting peace.
 
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MrBill_FLL

MrBill_FLL

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May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
I'm also more than a little upset at the critical comments here.
epirb? on a 29' coastal boat? I'd bet less than .1% of boats (in that size range) have that.
vhf? maybe, but my cell phone works in bimini and on most of the west coast out around 15 miles (as far out as I've been). (how do we know there was no hand held?)
sure there were errors made, but I don't see anything that say gross negligence -yet.
 
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kerryedwards

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Mar 27, 2016
52
Corsair F-24 denver
SPOT's are relatively inexpensive when compared to EPIRB's and can be easily carried and used in a variety of circumstances. I believe the Everglades Challenge requires SPOT's. SPOT's are cheaper than cellphones. In a dire emergency, a SPOT may be preferable to a VHF.
 
Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I read the full version of every USCG, USsailing, and RYC accident/incident report involving a sailboat.

There is learning in these for everyone, and it also sobering when I could not think of anything better that I would have done to prevent the outcome. I've also learned that almost anyone can fall victim to a series of (seemingly) small events that leads to big trouble. So I'm very careful not to judge. Clearly some are more preventable. Like this one I suppose. But I don't know the circumstances of the person involved. It not for me to decide if they should be allowed on the water. Or pass judgment.

So my advice is to read, learn, share what you know with others, and don't be an Monday morning quarterback.
 
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Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,759
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
kerryedwards said:
SPOT's are relatively inexpensive when compared to EPIRB's and can be easily carried and used in a variety of circumstances. I believe the Everglades Challenge requires SPOT's. SPOT's are cheaper than cellphones. In a dire emergency, a SPOT may be preferable to a VHF.
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While the SPOT is less expensive up front I would generally urge folks considering this to go with the DeLorme/Garmin InReach. They actually answer phones and have tremendous tech support where the SPOT has virtually none. After setting up SPOTs's and InReach's for customers I can no longer support the SPOT's atrocious (read ZERO) customer service. Still either is better than none..

A floating waterproof VHF is still a good inexpensive option, an HX 150 starts at about $80.00, and ones with built in GPS and DSC are very inexpensive these days now at under $170.00. It amazes me that anyone boating on the ocean or large lakes would choose to not carry a VHF.
 
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Piotr

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Dec 6, 2010
848
MacGregor 25 Rock Hall, MD
Some 29-foot Seafarers had swing keels and outboard engines. If this was in fact Seafarer 29 CB, it adds a whole new dimension to the story. IMHO- they lost the keel, capsized, lost the mast. The girl (RIP) got trapped in the cabin. Interestingly, they did not stated who's second body they recovered, or if THAT body wore a life jacket...
 
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kerryedwards

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Mar 27, 2016
52
Corsair F-24 denver
I always carry a handheld VHF but I've never been sure how far away a message can be heard. Can the Coastguard for instance, pick up a handheld VHF signal from 30 miles offshore? I know even with the antenna on the top of my mast I have trouble picking up signals at a distance.

I've got no opinion on SPOT over Garmin. I just happened to have owned a SPOT for about 5 yrs, hence my reference to it.
 
Brian D

Brian D

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Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
Out here in SoCal we are fortunate to have high mountains. With that, most of the VHF communications sites are located remotely on the higher peaks. From the top of my street in Oceanside, I can hit Catalina Island with my handheld. Distance is 52 nautical miles. Can the USCG pickup a signal from 30nm out? Sure, it the USCG's antenna is high enough. I have also read of a Catalina 36 en route to Hawaii and lost it's rudder 300nm out. They contacted the USCG San Diego on VHF (very lucky).
 
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dave_and_dd

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Apr 13, 2015
157
Catalina 309 Port Charlotte
Sad situation. so sorry for the family. There were obviously some incorrect decisions though. Don (s/v Illusion) my condolences as you were friends - However, I don't understand your saying that there was no inclement weather forecast. We were out on saturday in Tampa Bay and stayed very close in because the CG were constantly broadcasting weather alerts regarding incoming T-storms. We didn't go out on Sunday because everywhere I looked said it would be worse than Saturday.

Maybe they had different sites they looked at, but we would assume if going off shore that they would be checking?

I just hate to hear all this...Dave
 
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