Who is in Charge
- Thread starter Knuttle
- Start date
Quote "If you look up the California case regarding Bismark Dinius, you'll find that the person holding the tiller, though not technically the captain or owner of the boat, was the one charged."
While the above seems to make it cut an dried that the person holding the tiller is the one responsible there were many other considerations. From what I read Danius's blood alcohol was above the legal limit so he was under the influence. Also this was at night and there was a question as to whether the sailboat had the proper lights. On the other side the Sailboat was undersail and ghosting through the water. The power boat hit the sail boat on the stern quarter and basic went over the sailboat taking the cabin top off and the mast down. The powerboat then exited the sailboat on the port bow. Just considering what the powerboat did it was apparently traveling significantly faster than the sailboat. It is suspected the person at the helm of the power boat was heavily under the influence of alcohol at the time of the collision.
From the one article most of the people involved with the case have been dismissed from their government office.
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/justice.asp
http://www.lakeconews.com/index.php...006-boat-crash-prosecution-settled&Itemid=197
I don't think that a 21 foot sailboat during the day with a child under 10 is in the same category as the people in this situation. So I am still in the dark about Who is in charge. Based on the rules of right of way on inland waters which most of which North Carolina has addopted, the captain is responsible for action on his boat.
While the above seems to make it cut an dried that the person holding the tiller is the one responsible there were many other considerations. From what I read Danius's blood alcohol was above the legal limit so he was under the influence. Also this was at night and there was a question as to whether the sailboat had the proper lights. On the other side the Sailboat was undersail and ghosting through the water. The power boat hit the sail boat on the stern quarter and basic went over the sailboat taking the cabin top off and the mast down. The powerboat then exited the sailboat on the port bow. Just considering what the powerboat did it was apparently traveling significantly faster than the sailboat. It is suspected the person at the helm of the power boat was heavily under the influence of alcohol at the time of the collision.
From the one article most of the people involved with the case have been dismissed from their government office.
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/justice.asp
http://www.lakeconews.com/index.php...006-boat-crash-prosecution-settled&Itemid=197
I don't think that a 21 foot sailboat during the day with a child under 10 is in the same category as the people in this situation. So I am still in the dark about Who is in charge. Based on the rules of right of way on inland waters which most of which North Carolina has addopted, the captain is responsible for action on his boat.
That was a very strange read on the Dinius' case.
The driver of the powerboat was a drunken sheriff. He got supported by the clueless "buddies" in his local system. He was clearly at fault. Lies and cheaters all.
It took a few years to get the crooks outta the county system.
Dinius got screwed. One of his friends, the girl who owned the sailboat, was killed, murdered, by Purdock, the sheriff, the drunken lout.
And BTW, charged is a lot different than convicted. Dinius was charged and not convicted. The sheriff was neither charged or convicted. Both were complete travesties of justice.
The driver of the powerboat was a drunken sheriff. He got supported by the clueless "buddies" in his local system. He was clearly at fault. Lies and cheaters all.
It took a few years to get the crooks outta the county system.
Dinius got screwed. One of his friends, the girl who owned the sailboat, was killed, murdered, by Purdock, the sheriff, the drunken lout.
And BTW, charged is a lot different than convicted. Dinius was charged and not convicted. The sheriff was neither charged or convicted. Both were complete travesties of justice.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,072
I read that case last year and could not understand the decision. Like so many others. Except to affirm what Stu identified and fools protecting a guilty friend.
An we are told Justice is blind...
Guess the litigation motto is "Get a good lawyer or at the least get a lawyer that can win."
An we are told Justice is blind...
Guess the litigation motto is "Get a good lawyer or at the least get a lawyer that can win."
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,072
The 'aftermath' of the Bismark case, if anyone is interested;
http://www.lakeconews.com/index.php...006-boat-crash-prosecution-settled&Itemid=197
http://www.lakeconews.com/index.php...006-boat-crash-prosecution-settled&Itemid=197
Im sorry ,Ive got a venture 224 and my whole family is going to learn to sail it.even my 6 yr. old daughter.Just in case if something were to happen to me. Especially the radio .in case something were to happen to me I dont have a bunch of people sitting on deck screaming What do we do!
Thank you Roland . Steven Stewart of the good ship Jade Amanda .Better half is Admiral,6 yr old daughter is Captain and ive been bumped down to mere deckhand and swabby.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 23,072
Just my $02 - There are plenty of children as young as 5 years old sailing and RACING sailboat (see Optimist races). In Maryland, a person over 13 yrs of age (but born after 1972, I think) can operate a powered vessel only after passing a safety course. That person (operator) is fully responsible for the boat. This DOES NOT apply to unpowered vessels (aka small sailboats). It was always my opinion that although the skipper/captain/owner is responsible for the safety of the boat, helmsman, regardless of age is, at the time of actively steering the boat, legally responsible for their actions. In other words, yes, a kid may be found responsible along with the captain and tried as a juvenile. That's what I drilled into my son's brain since he started sailing at the age of 8.
As stated above , That's my opinion and I am not a lawyer.
As stated above , That's my opinion and I am not a lawyer.
Think we should all take a minute and say a prayer for the family missing in the gulf of mexico .Its a shame that this family took off from Clearwater on their way to Ft.Myers and never made it .They were going there to have their boat repaired, left in bad weather with no radio on board .I was raised in this part of the country .Been out there in similar weather conditions.and let me tell you there are some really shallow places along there .and the waves can get awful big like they say when in doubt dont go out. ,
I am a lawyer and post here and other places. I don't add a big disclaimer, but I usually indicate that I am not taking this case, not licensed in their state, or something to that effect. Just chiming in here to say that this is a crazy legal area. A lot of areas of the law are VERY fact dependent. However, they usually resolve down to a handful, up to a dozen standard scenarios.
The possibilities here are near endless. See for example any discussion on the colregs (right of way vs stand on, anyone, anyone. ) or think about the possibilities with just two boats each with a solo occupant (sail and sail, sail and motor, sail and fishing, anchor and under way, ...). Add in more boats, more people, ... It's a law professors dream for exam material.
Only once you have narrowed down all of these facts can you begin to select the law. In the majority of legal areas you have either state or federal law and in some cases you have a choice. In fewer instances you have a mix. Here, you have state, federal, maritime, and international as possible bodies of law. Not to mention there is both statutory law and judge made law in most of these areas. Maritime law is also one of those areas that has a long, rich, and sometimes archaic precedent.
Net, in most posts there is not enough detail to ferret out the major facts to even begin researching which law applies.
Since this post is already quite long, I'll conclude by saying that people in positions of power and authority throughout mankind's history have abused that power for both their and their friends benefit. Doesn't mean the system or the law us bad, just means there are bad people. Also doesn't mean we should quit calling out the bad people or working to make the system better.
The possibilities here are near endless. See for example any discussion on the colregs (right of way vs stand on, anyone, anyone. ) or think about the possibilities with just two boats each with a solo occupant (sail and sail, sail and motor, sail and fishing, anchor and under way, ...). Add in more boats, more people, ... It's a law professors dream for exam material.
Only once you have narrowed down all of these facts can you begin to select the law. In the majority of legal areas you have either state or federal law and in some cases you have a choice. In fewer instances you have a mix. Here, you have state, federal, maritime, and international as possible bodies of law. Not to mention there is both statutory law and judge made law in most of these areas. Maritime law is also one of those areas that has a long, rich, and sometimes archaic precedent.
Net, in most posts there is not enough detail to ferret out the major facts to even begin researching which law applies.
Since this post is already quite long, I'll conclude by saying that people in positions of power and authority throughout mankind's history have abused that power for both their and their friends benefit. Doesn't mean the system or the law us bad, just means there are bad people. Also doesn't mean we should quit calling out the bad people or working to make the system better.
One of the problems we have in this country is the unwillingness to consider the spirit of the law but rather the letter of the law. Lawyers are experts at manipulating the letter, either through loopholes, variation in verbiage or whatever. (Insert your favorite lawyer joke here). Judges, (mostly formerly trial lawyers) should unlearn this behavior and consider first the spirit of the law.
Someone mentioned lawyers commenting as being the law. To clarify, lawyers are NOT the law and just because one says something or sends a letter, he has no more authority than you or I do. He or she simply knows how to manipulate and intimate the lay folks with 75c words.
If you find yourself in a situation like this, I would suggest a lawyer that is involved with boats, either as a sailor or one who specializes in maritime law. You can't choose the judge but he's far more likely to side with a lawyer who is better versed on the topic.
Now it's my turn... 98% of the lawyers make the rest look bad! (If your a lawyer, that was a joke, I'll explain it later if you need me to).
Someone mentioned lawyers commenting as being the law. To clarify, lawyers are NOT the law and just because one says something or sends a letter, he has no more authority than you or I do. He or she simply knows how to manipulate and intimate the lay folks with 75c words.
If you find yourself in a situation like this, I would suggest a lawyer that is involved with boats, either as a sailor or one who specializes in maritime law. You can't choose the judge but he's far more likely to side with a lawyer who is better versed on the topic.
Now it's my turn... 98% of the lawyers make the rest look bad! (If your a lawyer, that was a joke, I'll explain it later if you need me to).