Do we really need more boaters?

[Daveinet]

I started to respond to Don's post about youth sailing, and stopped, as I did not want to hijack that thread.

Every so often, we read threads about how to get the youth involved, or how to create a larger interest in sailing. As I thought about it, I really now wonder if the world already has enough boaters. Any place where there is decent size lake, there are boat slips. Availability and price is based on supply and demand. Any time you hit any major city, there is a waiting list for boat slips, and the prices are exorbitant. Where I live, and typical boat slip will run anywhere from 3 to $4000 per season. That is almost double what I paid for my boat, and not that much less than the average good sized boat. Being that the demand for space is very high, I would like to suggest that the world really does have enough boaters. The manufacturers that are selling new boats may not want to hear this, but the evidence suggest that we have reached the saturation point. Wouldn't we be happier if there were less of us to contend with?

 

[woodster]

what we need is less condo developers that are consuming our waterfronts...as far as new boaters we will always need them.... nutrition is a wonderful thing ....example 10 years ago the dauphin island race was 400 boats strong this year there were approximately 150 boats.....and we have plenty of attrition the average age on this site alone is about 65 years of age and we have one foot on a banana peel.....

 

[Stu Jackson]

what we need is less condo developers that are consuming our waterfronts...

Wonderfully said. Thanks, you are SO right.

 

[Roadking Larry]

I'm 53 and age wise at my marina and club I'd guess that I'm in the younger 10% of the sailboat crowd.

 

[Benny17441]

I don't think there is a need to spell it out. There is more than enough water in this country for all of us to keep boats in but it is the conspiracy between Government and developers which just makes it available to money making projects resulting in increased tax receipts and developers contributions. They have now realized that the way to increase earnings and taxes does not entail constructing new marinas as by limiting the existing number they can jack up the prices. So we have more money and more boats but are probably no more happy than the guy in a Caribbean island who keeps his boat in a free mooring.

 

[Ken13559]

If we don't have new sailors, who do we sell our old boats to?

 

[Tom J]

The water calls to many of us, old and young alike. Hopefully, new boaters will find a way to get out there with us old timers.

 

[LeeandRick]

If we don't teach them to sail, they will just get a powerboat. At our 1000 slip marina we have about 20 sailboats during the winter season (no way will we play with the PB's in summer) and we tend to congregate on the same dock. For camaraderie, sure, but also for safety. The term "anyone can push a throttle and turn" was coined here. I will bet we have more horsepower per square foot than anywhere in the world. Well here is two votes for more sailing schools and more sailboats.

 

[BudGates]

If we don't teach them to sail, they will just get a powerboat. At our 1000 slip marina we have about 20 sailboats during the winter season (no way will we play with the PB's in summer) and we tend to congregate on the same dock. For camaraderie, sure, but also for safety. The term "anyone can push a throttle and turn" was coined here. I will bet we have more horsepower per square foot than anywhere in the world. Well here is two votes for more sailing schools and more sailboats.

Very good point. Teach the young to sail and there will be fewer annoying noisy power boats to contend with.

 

[jwing]

... the conspiracy between Government and developers...

In the places where I have lived, there's more than a conspiracy between local government and developers; most elected officers are developers. This is how they get favorable laws and zoning. Guys like me can't stomach dealing with government matters, but for developers, it is a part of their business that they need to be good at.

 

[capta]

When I was sailing the Caribbean in the 70' & 80's, it seemed like there was eye candy on every other boat. Like them, I've gotten older, but I do miss them. I for one, am all in favor in of repopulating the sailing world with a more youthful crowd than seems to be the norm today. Viva la bikini.

 

[JamesG161]

I'm 53 and age wise at my marina and club I'd guess that I'm in the younger 10% of the sailboat crowd

Living the dreams of our youth!

I started watching my brother, at the Naval Academy, sail us on parent's week, in the Severn River. ( I was 14)

One of the bright spots of Hurricane Katrina was the renewal and expansion of 5 city marinas. Up till then the coastal MS casinos and Condos were taking the market.

I love watching the small boat (youth groups) regattas. They are smarter and are electronically equipped (iPhone apps) even in the Sunfish size boats.
Jim...

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I don't think there is a need to spell it out. There is more than enough water in this country for all of us to keep boats in but it is the conspiracy between Government and developers

Right, and that pesky little concept of liberty, economic freedom, property owner's rights, free market capitalism, entrepreneurship and individualism which basically led to this county's prosperity (you know, the kind of prosperity that enables us to purchase boats and enjoy free time on the water). I wonder if we would be better off if the government conspired to force all of us into living in inner city apartments, so the market for desirable real estate would actually dry up. I think that concept has been tried. I wonder how many boat owners also own prime real estate on the water. I wonder how many developers actually sell something that isn't already inherently desirable. Who's fault is that?

 

[wufibugs]

There are really two threads going on here. One involves the extent to which supply and demand governs the production of marinas, and the other how government is supposed to work in a democratic capitalist economy. I'm really not sure whether the number of slips in America is increasing, or whether the slips are just getting bigger to accommodate the larger yachts of the wealthy. If the number of boaters is holding its own, I suspect it's because people turn to boating later in life than they used to. Boating is costly and younger people are struggling to buy homes, send kids to day care and college and pay for expensive cars, HD TVs and phones. People are looking for investments that increase in value. Boating is pure recreation and an investment that depreciates in value. That is a luxury embraced later in life when many of the other expenses are in the past.
The political discussion must be had against the backdrop of a few unassailable facts: Unregulated capitalism will tend to produce an ever widening income gap, and we live in a very enveloping culture that tends to dictate what we feel is desirable. This means that on the whole, rich, poor, male female, white and people of color, recent immigrants and those who call ourselves natives, all want most of the same things. For better or worse, unregulated capitalism says that those with money will get what they want, often to the exclusion of those with less money. I am pretty sure Yosemite Valley would be a neighborhood of marvelous estates and the entire coastline would be private property if money were the only thing talking. Despite the power of money in politics we expect government, those we elect and then decry, to control those forces so the rest of us are not always on the outside looking in. The problem of government is like the problem of child rearing: It doesn't come with a manual and neat set of rules. How far is government supposed to go in protecting us from those with money and from ourselves is a vast grey area. Are seat belt laws good or bad? How much do banks' lending practices need oversight? Is the National Park service necessary or meddlesome?

 

[thinwater]

Nobody encouraged me to sail, climb rock or ice, ski, or most of the stuff I do. My parents didn't know anything about these and believed play was for small children. I went and got it. There are thousands of activities out there, 98% of them on dry land; let them choose. What's the rush?

 

[woodster]

Is the National Park service necessary or meddlesome?

yes very necessary...if it were not you would have the great Smoky Dessert instead of the Smoky Mountains...

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The political discussion must be had against the backdrop of a few unassailable facts: Unregulated capitalism will tend to produce an ever widening income gap, and we live in a very enveloping culture that tends to dictate what we feel is desirable. For better or worse, unregulated capitalism says that those with money will get what they want, often to the exclusion of those with less money. Is the National Park service necessary or meddlesome?

This is more like an economic discussion rather than political (which, I think, is relevant to the discussion). It is not an unassailable fact. Unregulated capitalism, tends to produce equality in competition, which leads to a lessening income gap. Historically, it is the regulated capitalism, crony capitalism, which leads to monopoly. Look at oil and railroads in the days of the robber barons. Favorable treatment from government led to monopolies that we finally decided needed to be broken up. Essentially, government was forced to create regulation to deal with the situation that government conspired to create. Is banking regulation needed? Yes, but it is a tricky topic. Is there anybody denying that the elites in the banking industry 'help' the government write and re-write the regs that actually favor the largest and most powerful among the banks? Regulations are a double-edged sword because they tend to promote unfair advantages to some (the rich and politically connected) at the expense of the majority of the smaller and struggling competitors. Does anybody argue against the fact that competition breeds innovation and helps keep prices affordable, thus competition ('unregulated' capitalism) is necessary to provide increased opportunity. Well, one thing that regulation does very well, is stifle competition, in order to 'protect' us. Also, the larger and richer government becomes, the greater the opportunities become for crony capitalists and the more stifling it becomes for honest competitors.
This isn't a diatribe against regulation, it is just an honest assessment that regulations are a complex issue. Obviously, there are numerous reasons why we need and desire regulations in many forms, and need a functioning government. Chief among our interests are the desire for clean air and water. We also need a strong Defense. But there are by-products that we find undesirable. We often don't like how clean air and water regs are enforced or where they are directed when it affects our own economic or recreational interests. Crony capitalism in the defense industry is extremely costly to the rest of us (taxes).
Obviously, National Parks are a by-product of a prosperous society, and a well-funded and service-oriented government. Hardly anybody would argue that National Parks aren't a treasure to us all. What happens when a government becomes so rich and powerful, with help from the government's favored elites in the industrial complex, that they begin to see that our national treasures are being over-run by the growing majority of the unwashed. It's not such a stretch to fear the day when most of us are on the outside, looking in on the elites, who will have favored access to these treasures. That's where increasing the scope and wealth of government can lead us.

Getting back to the original topic, if boating has reached it's saturation, or in other words, if boating opportunities are being restricted or diminished because of economic interests, the first to fall out of boating will be those of us whom are marginally able to afford it as a leisure activity. That's just a law of nature. Many of us will just have to move to less desirable or less populated areas where the costs of recreation are less. It's a simple solution, no?

 

[BudGates]

Nobody encouraged me to sail, climb rock or ice, ski, or most of the stuff I do. My parents didn't know anything about these and believed play was for small children. I went and got it. There are thousands of activities out there, 98% of them on dry land; let them choose. What's the rush?

I'm sure you got the idea to do those things somewhere. The issue here is making it available. Was there anyone there to teach you sailing, climbing, or skiing or did you learn everything on your own?

 

[Kings Gambit]

Without a market there won't be many new sailboats being produced although the powerboat market might be enough to keep new powerboats around. There's no need for big marinas if there are but few boats to put in them (low demand). So, build and maintain the marinas for the powerboats and allow us quirky sailboat types to keep our comparatively few old, dated, and often unkempt dream-savers in there too, regardless of whether they or we ever leave to go sailing. It's the old adage--you can teach a kid (or adult) to sail but you cannot make 'em passionate enough about sailing to perhaps give up some other trite activity or possession so that it might be pursued. Enjoyment of any activity comes with one's mastery of it--the better you are at it, the more fun and satisfaction you derive from it. Regrettably, too few ever make it past the beginner stage and so miss out.

 

[wufibugs]

Scott, this is an incredibly complicated topic that I won't carry further on a sailing forum. You write well and bring much to the table. Suffice it to say I'd love to sit down some day and have a real-time discussion [not debate since we agree on a lot and where we diverge may be a matter of emphasis or weight]. If you folks have reason to "motor west" for any reason, let me know. Be glad to host and sail the bay together.