Buying a boat coming out of service as a bareboat

agprice22 · Apr 25, 2016

I did my bareboat skipper certificate aboard a yacht in the BVIs this Winter. The captain said...
The charter company brokers the yacht purchase to the buyer, leases it back from the buyer to charter for 5 or so years, making the payments for those years, then brokers the sale of the older yacht for the owner. He said they make money coming and going without even owning the boats. The owner takes the loss or is left with a well used boat and a lot of payments to make. Some boats are sold to the lower echelon charter companies. Some of the yachts are owned by groups that may own multiple yachts. It sounds like big business. The boats are used by non-owners who may not know how to properly used them... especially motors and transmissions... the equivalent of a rental car. On the plus side, the companies do maintain the yachts. Ours was apparently hauled yearly for maintenance.

I cannot verify any of this info. It is what I was told by the captain.
They do look like nice boats. I was on a Benneteau 430 Oceanis. It was well maintained. It was owned by a group out of California as I recall. The mantra aboard these boats seems to be: sail well within the envelope... you are cruising... Never be in a hurry. Be gentle on the equipment. If you break down, the charter company will use the time allowed to fix you. Our Captain emphasized the bareboat cruising philosophy on a boat you don't know.
We never exeeded 4.5 knots. Reefed early and often. The boat was well loaded-down with stuff...

Maybe this gives a little background on the boats...

Thanks,
Andrew

Benny17441 · Apr 25, 2016

Just look at them like you would any other boat. What is the model and price. How many hours on the engine, how are the sails, inventory of instruments and electronics. Have a surveyor conduct an inspection and haul out and take a sea trial.

ifmdalvey · Apr 26, 2016

The boats are unlikely to be suitable for a couple, the maximum number of cabins have been installed which is not what a cruising couple would want. Also its probably a short rig with a lack of sail power to take account of the lack of experience of the charters. Unless its really really cheap, i would not touch them.

Jackdaw · Apr 26, 2016

The tier one guys will do a good job of preventive maintence on the boats. It is in their best interest to keep them on the water generating revenue . Because they are on the water all the time. Thats the rub, the boats have close to 100% duty cycle and things DO wear. Diesel, winches, pump motors, blocks, lines, will wear.

In a lesser way it's like buying a well maintained rental car.

An the point about charter setup is valid, it going to have MAX staterooms and minimal gear. The gear part can be addressed, the stateroom part is something you have to factor in. Probably the world most popular charter boat is the Moorings 50, which is based on the Oceanis 50. That thing has 4 staterooms and FOUR heads. Who needs that in a private boat? The current trend is to maximize public space and cut down on the private sleeping and wash areas.

markwbird · Apr 26, 2016

My experience with charter boats is that they are like rental cars; the equipment on board is the cheapest crap you can get. You always hear that rentals are abused. That may or may not be true as well but you can be sure that a 10 year old rental has about 10 times the use as a private boat would.

Stu Jackson · Apr 26, 2016

And then you have to get the boat back to Texas. I'm guessing there might be just a few boat for sale much closer to you. Unless you want to leave it in the BVIs. I have a boat pretty much where I want it to be, like you everything works because I put the stuff in myself, and did regular preventative maintenance. I'm not prepared to even consider starting all over again.

HMT2 said:
with purchasing a boat from the Moorings or other bareboat company.

Benny17441 · Apr 26, 2016

Yes, that is another thing, those boats even those manufactured in the US they were probably sold for export which means that likely no sales taxes were paid and would be collected according to the boats current value when entering or reentering the US. Normal titling and registration costs would also apply.

Gunni · Apr 26, 2016

By the time you re-power the worn out drive train, buy a good suit of sails, get an A/C system to endure that Texas heat and pay the import duty you will wonder if you really got a good deal. You would need a very very thorough survey...and good luck to make that dream work. The allure of lots of boat at a low price is where the regret begins. You get what you pay for.

capta · Apr 26, 2016

I've delivered many, many bareboats from the VI to the East Coast at the end of their service and I would highly recommend against buying one.
The highest paid professional on any bareboat company roster is the fiberglass repair guy. He can make any damage disappear like magic, most often doing only what repairs are needed to make the boat look good again. Often so good that a survey won't catch the repair.
Many bareboats are built especially for that market, as cheaply as a boat can be built. Some come with more cabins and heads than private owners need, at the cost of fewer more comfortable cabins.
Generally, these boats are just plain beat to death by individuals with neither the knowledge nor the expertise to care for them while using them.

Kings Gambit · Apr 26, 2016

I look at it this way. Many charter boats are bought new, sometimes by an individual owner who has a contract with a charter company, and put into service--TO MAKE MONEY. As they age the charter companies eventually want to "dump" 'em b/c the cost of maintaining them goes up "exponentially" with age after 5 to 7 yr. Chartering sucks money/value out of the boat (i.e., the asset) which is "resold" at a high mark-up to charterers for short-term enjoyment. In my opinion, there's probably no deal there unless you want a project boat, the project being to put back into the boat the money that was sucked out of it as a charter company asset.

agprice22 · Apr 26, 2016

Hey, you aren't working on a boat til you bleed a little!

agprice22 · Apr 26, 2016

I totally know what you mean. I just finished a week off to work on my boat:
Boat:
New plexiglass swinging hatch
New inverter / charger and shore power inlet
New wheel steering
New plexiglass hatch
Stainless hand rails in the salon

Me:
Many scrapes on my bald scalp
One big blood blister
One big splinter
One drilled hole in my hand
One injured heel

I call the score: EVEN

Ron20324 · Apr 26, 2016

[QUOTE...Many scrapes on my bald scalp,One big blood blister,One big splinter
One drilled hole in my hand, One injured heel, I call the score: EVEN...

[/QUOTE]

Answers to the name of "Lucky" .

Jackdaw · Apr 27, 2016

Kings Gambit said:
I look at it this way. Many charter boats are bought new, sometimes by an individual owner who has a contract with a charter company, and put into service--TO MAKE MONEY. As they age the charter companies eventually want to "dump" 'em b/c the cost of maintaining them goes up "exponentially" with age after 5 to 7 yr. Chartering sucks money/value out of the boat (i.e., the asset) which is "resold" at a high mark-up to charterers for short-term enjoyment. In my opinion, there's probably no deal there unless you want a project boat, the project being to put back into the boat the money that was sucked out of it as a charter company asset.

Well we DO live in a capitalistic society; EVERYONE is in it to make money. And maximize that in the process! The good news is that there is very little friction in our markets, including sailboats. There really are no good deals, everything is fairly priced as the markets will bear. The price you will pay for a boat coming out of charter probably very accurately reflects fair market value with everything (location, condition, duty cycle, fitout, layout, etc) already factored in. They have to sell a TON of them every year and can't get that wrong. You MIGHT get to play around the edges of that if some of the particular circumstance about the boat line up in your favor, like current location or layout.

MrBill_FLL · Apr 27, 2016

HMT2 said:
Gentlemen, thank you for all your thoughts. I am aware of all of the issues with buying a "rental car". I was merely curious if anyone had bought one and had a good experience. I have put way too many gallons of sweat and a pint or two of blood into getting my current boat fixed up to where she is now. I have no intention of parting with her any time soon. It was never a serious thought' merely curiosity. Stu you are correct, there are plenty of boats for sale down here in the event I get "two or four footitis" Now quit looking at the forum and go blow boating!

I crew on a former Mornings / bene 393. that boat was based in Marsh Harbor Abaco bahamas. THOSE boats seem to get less use, (based on the engine hours), than the BVI boats. The buyer was also owner of a boat repair business, had access to cheap labor and parts. this is a positive example of a knowledgeable owner buying a boat at a good price. (engine has 1500 hours at purchase, and was 8 yrs old (IIRC).

But in general I agree with the other posts, to avoid a charter boat. this case is an exception.