New Marina Trend

[Mark Maulden]

Years and years ago, i could haul, get pressure washed, and blocked. The rest was up to me however I wanted to do it. Fast forward and I can still do that but with a lot of restrictions like rent our tarp, rent our tools, buy paint from us, etc. Some yards are not that bad.. However, when I add up all the expenses of paint/incidentals, etc, for a 36' boat, it is cheaper to just have the yard do it. About $1100.00 for everything for bottom paint. (SR40 paint)..And, if they do it, I can supervise and perform other work and not get charged laydays even if I'm out a few days longer...When I next haul, I want to install a ducer for chirp sonar. Technician said he might just be walking by with a hole saw at the time. I think most yards in the PNW are about the same. If it gets unbearable, Canada is a days sail....and I think grids can still be found there...

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I understand there are those who want to have a space in a boat yard and/or marina to perform their own work. Bad O provides the logical conclusion. Take the boat to your own property, where you are responsible for all the liabilities and expenses. Many people have done just that for major re-fits. Most of us really just want to take advantage of a cheap solution ... use of free, or very cheap, space and convenient use of facilities (electricity, water, etc). If we were actually charged for the full service the lot owner provides, I doubt many would be very happy to pay that price. Most would probably grumble and look for an alternative. Many of us have gotten used to lax policies by yard owners, and it is a little bit of a shock to our system when they (yard owners) increasingly realize that lax policies aren't in their best economic interest. I'm simply saying that times are changing and I don't blame any yard owner for changing their policies accordingly. Besides, as kimelmore says, the free market will tend to make these decisions for us. Personally, DIY work isn't all that pleasurable to me. Time on my boat, sailing, is what I'm really after. I just don't feel a need or a desire to be self-sufficient when it comes to boat maintenance. I'll attempt to perform some improvement projects, when they can be performed while the boat is in it's slip. Otherwise, climbing a ladder or hunching under the hull in the yard is just not my idea of a great use of my time. I'm old enough where making work for myself is neither productive or pleasurable. Maybe that is what the market is telling yard owners.

 

[woodster]

all these theories sound good but the bottom line is IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY and it always starts at the insurance company level...they sit in there office on the 99th floor and decide to create financial havoc for the subscribers and have no clue what pain they are inflicting .......

 

[wufibugs]

I don't know whether Woody is correct or not. There is no evidence this is driven by insurance companies' risk management tactics alone. More likely there are multiple factors. Regulations relating to the many hazardous materials involved in boat maintenance; fallout from the few DIYers who have displayed little regard for their own safety or the implications of their behavior; the economic rewards of requiring customers to use in-house or favored vendors; boatyards, by their nature occupy highly desirable locations so that they are bought out to be replaced by "higher and better" land uses resulting in a loss of the older yards that were more likely to allow DIY; fewer boaters in general; and fewer owners, like Scott [whose unstated premise is that sailing is an alternative to maintenance, which is only true if yard workers would do the job much faster than a DIYer], who want, enjoy or have an economic need to do their own maintenance. For some, such as myself, most boat maintenance is an economically necessary pleasure [I adamantly exempt the replacement of Windmistress' entire waste hose system].

 

[Scott T-Bird]

It is about the economics. But it isn't necessarily about the insurance. Yard owners may wake up one day and say ... "you know what? I don't need all these DIY guys around here expecting me to provide them with free or cheap space to do their projects. I've got a bunch of employees on my payroll and those guys can be paying me to do that work. So that's what we're going to do from now on. If they don't like it, they can go down the road and find somebody else who will give them cheap space, but it's not going to be me anymore."

 

[wufibugs]

Whoa, Scott. Here in CA most marinas and yards are either separate entities entirely, or the marinas that have a yard operate them separately. Meaning that just because you rent a slip does not mean you also have yard privileges. I don't know of any yard on SoCal that will allow one to pull their boat in or haul it out and then let you take up yard space for free. They charge to haul and they have a daily rate for yard time based on the size of the boat, just like the marina. I assume this rate is set by the yard owner at a level adequate to cover their overhead + a profit. I am surprised and green with envy if your experience has been with yards that roll out the welcome mat and allow folks to work in their yards for nothing or just for the pleasure of having DIYers around. The yards that allow DIYers probably do not have permanent employees for boat maintenance or have enough work for them so accommodating both is economically beneficial, not detrimental.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I agree, I don't think there are yard owners who let people hang out for free. My only point is that I think yard owners eventually wake up and realize that providing space for DIY work, at whatever price they charge, is simply not working for them economically. Any business owner will soon realize when the service they provide is costing them money, or isn't making enough money, it is time for a change. When we see these changes in policy commonly implemented, it should be no surprise that there are valid economic reasons for the changes.

 

[Stu Jackson]

boatyards, by their nature occupy highly desirable locations so that they are bought out to be replaced by "higher and better" land uses

Richard's right. There is a steady movement here now to "gentrify" the waterfront, as if boatyards could be anywhere else!!!

Personally, DIY work isn't all that pleasurable to me.

I LOVE DIY on my boat, as I noted previously there are many reasons why, mostly safety. But there are some things I will not or cannot do. I've never done my own bottom work, even when I was younger and had smaller boats. I don't do metal fabrication (two new bow pulpits in two years, although I can do a stanchion or two and lifelines, I haven't done fiberglass repair work, although I could learn, but the insurance from the other guy took care of that).

 

[Scott T-Bird]

They charge to haul and they have a daily rate for yard time based on the size of the boat, just like the marina. I assume this rate is set by the yard owner at a level adequate to cover their overhead + a profit. I am surprised and green with envy if your experience has been with yards that roll out the welcome mat and allow folks to work in their yards for nothing or just for the pleasure of having DIYers around. The yards that allow DIYers probably do not have permanent employees for boat maintenance or have enough work for them so accommodating both is economically beneficial, not detrimental.

I think there is a difference of expectations regionally. Where you are, I presume the boat is typically in the water year round. It might be a significant and unusual expense to haul the boat and put it on blocks for storage at a daily rate that adds up quite quickly. In the northeast, we haul the boat every year and pay for winter storage at just a few dollars per day, but for 6 months. So while we are hauled for the winter, many have become used to performing DIY projects, without additional cost for housing the boat. In my case, it is less than $7 per day, all in for hauling, storage, winterize & re-launch. So the question becomes, are we already paying for the space through our storage fee, should the boat yard charge more if you are doing DIY projects, or should they decide to abolish the practice entirely? Our marina has a daily rate for summer dry storage. I don't know what the rate is but I'm guessing it is higher than winter storage.

 

[Stu Jackson]

It might be a significant and unusual expense to haul the boat and put it on blocks for storage at a daily rate that adds up quite quickly.

Your point about differences is valid, but the reality is that while our boats are in the water all year round, we're paying full slip fees, compared to the lesser amount you pay for winter storage. Of course, we get to use our boats more.

We haul for bottom jobs or other repairs. The haul includes up & down, pressure wash the bottom when it first comes out, paint and prep, and all the damned environmental fees, no different that yours.

It's simply a timing issue and bears little relationship to the amount of DIY effort any skipper chooses to do..

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Yes, I'm not sure if we even have a disagreement or wherein a disagreement lies. I presume that if you pay for a slip fee year-round, paying an additional fee for dry storage is a significant expense. When you factor in that you are basically paying extra to take your boat out of the water, the pressure to complete projects is increased. It costs to wait for weekends for DIY projects. I would assume that west coast customers may prefer to have boat yard personnel complete work for the simple reason that time is extra money (when you are paying both a slip fee and dry storage), and it becomes less affordable to pay for any idle time that the boat is in dry storage.
In the northeast, we're not paying for slip fees in the winter, and the storage fees are less anyway, as you point out. We have 6 months to complete work at far more leisure. Sure, we have to wait through the bad weather, but it generally isn't costing any extra for us to perform DIY on the weekends and sit idle during the long weeks. Many believe we have already paid for the boat's storage, what difference does it make if we use that time for DIY projects. Thus, there is some disenchantment with a yard owner who changes the old policy by refusing to allow you access to your own boat for projects.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I presume that if you pay for a slip fee year-round, paying an additional fee for dry storage is a significant expense.

Not so much since a haul & bottom paint takes all of three days.

Thus, there is some disenchantment with a yard owner who changes the old policy by refusing to allow you access to your own boat for projects.

Absolutely. A real rip-off.

I'm not sure if we even have a disagreement or wherein a disagreement lies.

Not at all, just trying to explain the differences as you first brought them up.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Not so much since a haul & bottom paint takes all of three days.
Does the cost discourage a DIY'er from hauling and lingering in dry storage while he takes his time to take on other projects? Would there not be incentive to hire the yard personnel?
Absolutely. A real rip-off.
So what, doesn't the property owner have the responsibility to his family and/or investors to maximize revenue? Isn't that what you do in your business? So long as he doesn't lose customers, that would be my expectation. If you don't look out for yourself, nobody else is going to. How is it a rip-off? (property owner's rights)
Not at all, just trying to explain the differences as you first brought them up.

(I haven't mastered the knack of separating quotes ... sorry for confusion)

 

[Stu Jackson]

I haven't mastered the knack of separating quotes ... sorry for confusion

Simple: hover over the text and click on reply w quote (NOT the whole topic), do it again. Then type in between them.

 

[Stu Jackson]

So what, doesn't the property owner have the responsibility to his family and/or investors to maximize revenue? Isn't that what you do in your business? So long as he doesn't lose customers, that would be my expectation. If you don't look out for yourself, nobody else is going to. How is it a rip-off?

It's a rip off because you can't work on your own boat for those non-environmental things.

 

[woodster]

i know in time it will change on the gulf of mexico area but for now come down guys and haul your boats and work till your hearts content ...come to think of it that's not a bad idea if i do say so my self

 

[wufibugs]

Woodster, that may depend on how far down the coast you go. I did inquire about hauling and working on my boat at Baja Naval in Ensenada. They don't allow DIY work below the waterline. Scott makes a good point about the difference between winter haul-outs and warm latitude haul only for maintenance. The winter storage yards [meaning yards that do boat maintenance as opposed to those doing storage only] probably have reason to distinguish between work done on stored boats that does not have environmental or proximity implications, and stuff that does. As Stu wrote, for the former I can't think of an objection; for the latter an extra charge might in justified. If this market responds to supply and demand, the loss of DIY yards will result in steeper yard rates for the few remaining. Used to be that in the older sections of town on "auto repair row" you could rent DIY paint booths and bays for repair. Don't see aone anymore.

 

[justsomeguy]

I did inquire about hauling and working on my boat at Baja Naval in Ensenada. They don't allow DIY work below the waterline.

Ensenada is too close to a major US port to be emblematic of Mexico's actual enforced policies regarding DIY maintenance.
Be that as it may, it never hurts to limit our polluting ways.

 

[mitiempo]

The entire European Union is talking about banning boat owners from applying their own bottom paint. The English are trying to keep it from becoming law.

 

[Saildogs]

At my marina in Maryland, the slip fee is for the year and haulout and land storage are extra. I prefer to haul every year so just pay the bill. I don't care to bottom paint anymore and now have the yard doing the hull and topsides as well. It is not as expensive as you would think and the boat looks better than ever.