Furling Asym - budgetary cost?

Oct 26, 2008
6,432
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I think the confusion between gybing to the inside or to the outside of the forestay lies in where the head of the sail is attached.
With my masthead rig, before I had a block mounted to the spinnaker crane, I used a 2nd genoa halyard to hoist my old sym spinnaker (I know, not the best way to do it). I didn't have a pole so I attached the tack to the forestay on a carabineer (which functioned similar to the ATN Tacker) with a downhaul for height adjustment. Because the head of the spinnaker was inside the forestay, naturally, I could only gybe to the inside, like a genoa, otherwise the head would wrap on the forestay if I gybed by flying the clew to the outside.
If I were to set up exactly the same way, except with the head attached to a spinnaker halyard running through the block on the spin crane, then I would have to gybe to the outside to avoid wrapping the head on the forestay because the crane is mounted over the stay.
I'm guessing that most are using a crane over the forestay, especially if you have fractional rig. In that case, the clew has to fly to the outside in a gybe. I think it has nothing to do with the ATN Tacker, which should be able to rotate either direction, inside or outside. I haven't watched the video, but my guess is that by gybing with the clew to the inside, they are using a genoa halyard and the head has to rotate inside the stay to avoid a wrap.
If you are using a sprit, I don't see how you can avoid gybing to the outside. In this case, doesn't the head of the sail have to be outside the stay, just like the tack is? I suppose you could pull it off by passing the clew between the luff and the stay, but it would seem far easier to simply gybe to the outside.
 
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Sep 25, 2008
1,096
CS 30 Toronto
I wasn't that crazy about the ATN tacker idea. Putting a lot of side way pull on furled head sail is not my liking. And besides, one has to furl in the head sail before you can deploy the asym.

On my boat with a home made sprit, I can deploy the asym behind the jib before furling it in with no speed lost. I can also do the reverse, like douse the asym behind the jib which is a lot easier.

Since I have a sock anyway, I can partially sock in the asym before gybe make it a lot easier with no chance of wrap.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Scott, I always thought of it as being the amount of space one has between the tack of the asym, and the forestay. For a boat with a nice sprit, there's lots of distance to be able to pull the chute through. For my boat, it's fractional, with the spin halyard about 6-8" above the hounds (don't wanna break the tip off my mast), and the tack is lead through a horizontal bullseye fairlead mounted at the front of my bow pulpit, just next to the bicolor nav light fixture. Not ideal, but I'm not going to sprit out the boat, either. So, I really haven't got much space between the tack bullseye up on the rail, and the forestay. I've been trying to gybe outside the tack/luff of the asym, figuring it would be easier than trying to pull between the forestay and the luff. The problem with gybing outside is that you need pretty good wind, and pretty good timing, in an attempt to get the spin to fly out far enough to make it easy to pull the clew around the luff (and also around the forestay, effectively.) To be successful, I need crew that understands what we are trying to do, and understands the timing. Or, I need to juggle many things solo, including steering with my knees, and pulling over the main, and then pulling the clew around. Also, I downhaul the hank-on jib when flying the chute, so I don't have to worry about that. I'm impressed by dinghies that trim the jib while flying a chute.

Also, the boat is small, and the chute is small, so it's easy to just do stuff.
 

weinie

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Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
And an outside gybe presents plenty of opportunity for running over a lazy sheet ;)
 
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Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
The video shows a very common rigging method for an asymmetric sail on a cruising boat where the TACK line is shackled to the anchor roller forward of the forestry, and the lazy sheet is led fore of the forestry. The Gybe is not so crisp, but non-the-less Etienne is able to drag the sail forward of the stay. The system works well, and requires no specialty sprit poles or such. You just need a stout anchor roller. By playing the tack line up or down you can modify the sail for angle of downwind sailing.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,432
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I wasn't that crazy about the ATN tacker idea. Putting a lot of side way pull on furled head sail is not my liking. And besides, one has to furl in the head sail before you can deploy the asym.
I agree, I think I'd make it a priority to add a sprit for using an asym spinnaker.
 
Nov 26, 2008
1,970
Endeavour 42 Cruisin
Have you watched how we gybed the asym with top down furler on my 42 in the video I posted?

My wife, who has never been on a boat with a spinnaker, was driving. I was laying down on deck shooting and we had one other person furl the sail in, gybe and unfurl. Took us rookies 3 takes to get it perfect. Mo muss, no fuss!
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
And an outside gybe presents plenty of opportunity for running over a lazy sheet ;)
This is true only if your asym does not have a Gybulator, or as my Aussie friends say, a dick.


The lazy sheet is placed over the gybulator and it holds the sheet in place until the gybe. Works great, all the time. Never gets caught. Your sailmaker can do it, or you can add one to an asym yourself, I've done it with a length of webbing stuffed with a cut up milk jug. Just be sure to sew it to the luff! Here is one in action.


Weinie, you can do a trick all the SunFast guys do, attach a 2 foot long fiberglass wand to the end of your sprit. It will flex if it touches anything, but will hold up the sheet..
 
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Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
And an outside gybe presents plenty of opportunity for running over a lazy sheet ;)
Weinie, don't think I don't worry about this! :D I just keep hoping the lazy sheet falls on the pulpit. On the GP14 dinghy, many people rig a wire hook of some type that bends upwards from the stemhead fitting, just to prevent this type of thing.
 
Feb 18, 2011
14
Camper-Nicholson 30 1/2 ton Beaver Lake, AR
I sail a 30 footer converted to an Aspin this season. I decided to use the KISS method install a Selden sprit, new sail (622 s.f,) with adjustable tack line, a simple retrieval line and inside sheeting would be workable. I just couldn't bring myself to add further complications in additional equipment as I consider top down furling, a snuffer , and additional furling lines as more a complicated than running a spinnaker not to mention dollars flying out of my pocket. If 3-4 of us can crew the boat with spinnaker an asymmetrical shouldn't be a problem.