Will It Run?

[Jtcf78911]

Dear friends in sail;
Decided I mustn't be afraid of member scorn when I submit possibly lame inquiries...so here we go. I'm a new boat owner as of last summer, lovely 1985 O'Day 28, and I'd have to say the engine was running quite rough, occasionally stalling, before and as I brought her in for winter storage. I've done or will complete the basic required annual maintenance on the engine (Universal 12), with only a very dirty air filter jumping out at me. I'm seriously wondering whether the engines going to start-run when it's time to hit the water again. So....if possible I'd like to make sure she's ready to run before I hit the water, and I'm wondering if there is a way to safely run the engine while on the hard? I assume I'd need to rig up some kind of system for drawing cooling water through the engine. And what that would be exactly?? Any guidance appreciated. As a new sailor the last thing I want is to be trying to make my way out of the nasty Merrimack River mouth (Massachusetts) without power... Tom O'Day 28.

 

[pateco]

You can remove the inlet hose to your raw water pump and attach a short piece of the same size hose running into a bucket full of water, and test on the hard. Just remember that the boat will be spewing water out of the exhaust, and that you need to keep the bucket at the inlet full of water to not run the engine dry.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

There is a product called "Fake a Lake" that you can use to provide water from a garden hose. Just google it and you will get the idea. Running the engine under load is a different problem. Good luck with your diagnosis. You will need the engine manuals at the very least. I'd enlist some expert help to try to diagnose your troubles.

 

[Jtcf78911]

Thanks. Might be good to know at what rate that bucket will empty. Can likely figure that out. T.

 

[Jtcf78911]

Fake a lake sounds interesting. Just kind of hoping she'll start up whiz-bang and keep running once in gear (in the water)... You're right, I may ultimately need to engage my local mechanic... Tx. T.

 

[kito]

I bought a 30 gallon garbage can and placed it at my exhaust and filled it half full of water. I then rigged up a hose to my water pump inlet and ran it to the garbage can. That way the water just recycles and doesn't soak the area with water.
Did you change out the fuel filters and bleed the lines? Universal 12 is a diesel correct? When I changed all my filters I had to bleed my lines 5 or 6 times to get it to run smooth and keep a constant speed.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

Fuel? do you have a water separator filter?

can you bring a jug of fresh fuel to run that too? (divide and conquer)

 

[Jtcf78911]

I bought a 30 gallon garbage can and placed it at my exhaust and filled it half full of water. I then rigged up a hose to my water pump inlet and ran it to the garbage can. That way the water just recycles and doesn't soak the area with water.
Did you change out the fuel filters and bleed the lines? Universal 12 is a diesel correct? When I changed all my filters I had to bleed my lines 5 or 6 times to get it to run smooth and keep a constant speed.

Yep. Diesel. I did change the primary and secondary fuel filters. The primary filter is supposedly stationed in a position (in relation to fuel lines and tank) for which air in hoses should not occur with filter change. I did say supposedly. I may do some bleeding just for the experience. So the exhaust water output is heading back into the 30 gallon can...and it's just a circulating system of water?

 

[Jtcf78911]

I put a full tank of fresh fuel in before she went in for the Fall....but the jug idea not a bad one. We did have a 3 8-hour days consecutive sail in fairly rough waters to bring the boat down from Maine...and shortly after that the engine started cutting out. Maybe we stirred up some sediment...

 

[kito]

Maybe someone will chime in that is familiar with the Universal. Mine is a Yanmar and there is no way not to introduce air into the line when changing out the filters. My boat is on stands and just position the can so it collects most of the exhaust water. I just disconnect my galley sink hose from the thru hull and run a hose out the thru hull from the water pump inlet to the garbage can.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I assume I'd need to rig up some kind of system for drawing cooling water through the engine. And what that would be exactly??

Here's How To:

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=873073&highlight=winterizing

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Stu, I am under the impression that he wants to run the engine to diagnose problems, not winterize it. It does beg the question since the boat is in Massachusetts ... is it winterized now? Are you planning to put this off until the spring? Otherwise, you'll need to winterize again, after you have spent the time playing with it.

 

[Jtcf78911]

Here's How To:

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=873073&highlight=winterizing

That's excellent Stu...couldn't quite hear what you were saying about the valve in the cabinet you opened, but will be sure not to flood the engine. Have already completed winterizing, though we've had a very warm winter (not complaining after last years snow), but will use your method later in spring to just to see if I can get the universal running as it should. You've got a nice looking boat. Tx. Tom.

 

[Stu Jackson]

You've got a nice looking boat.

Glad to help, but Tom, it ain't my boat, it's Maine Sail's.

That's why the link was titled:

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail)

 

[31seahorse]

+1 to what Scott T-Bird said. In MA the water might be a bit too stiff to run through the engine now AND for sure the engine would need to be winterized following any attempts to start it in the winter.

(1) Does the engine have an electric fuel pump? a glo plug? Hearing a faint clicking sound with the key in the "on" position would indicate the electric pump is pumping. That will make bleeding a bit easier than cranking the engine.

(2) Those 8 hour rough days make me "***** up my ears". We had engine slowing and engine stalling even though we changed the obvious filters (like you did) and the fuel lines and the electric fuel lift pump. All to no avail! You could easily be dealing with gunk in the fuel tank itself. There is probably a small screen on or in the end of the fuel pick up tube in the fuel tank. That can get blocked over time. The 272 we just sold had a "suitcase" fuel tank in the transom. The Oday 28 may be similar. (Anyway remove the fuel pick up tube from the tank.) If your tank position is like the 272LE you might need to make access holes to remove the tube. Message me in the SBO system if you want more information on that project. At the same time we cleaned the screen in the fuel pick up tube we had the fuel "polished". I thought it might be smoke and mirrors, but I saw the fuel circulate out of the tank - through the filter media - back to the tank. 3 or 4 dirty filters later we were finished. Our engine has been much happier since that process 18 months ago.
31seahorse

 

[31seahorse]

Apologies to all for the need to bleep my "ears" remark. Another farm reference. Dogs and horses each "alert" with their ears. That was my remark's heritage.

 

[Jtcf78911]

That sounds like fun! Process of elimination. I've been meaning to do a little exploring around the fuel tank anyway... Not sure what the "polishing" process is...but will investigate.. Tx. much. T.

Glad to help, but Tom, it ain't my boat, it's Maine Sail's.

That's why the link was titled:

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail)

I thank you just the same... T.

 

[31seahorse]

By the way.....fuel lines could be a part of the problem. My mechanic guru told me that fuel lines can separate internally and cause a restriction of flow. I had changed our lines before the fuel polishing (read fuel filtering out of the tank, through the filter, and back into the tank with force to loosen caked on gunk in the tank). Unfortunately, new fuel lines did not solve the problem, so I would delay that if there is no obvious sign of cracking, etc. On a powerboat we have (sorry) I saw the interior layer separate from the ethanol disease. But, that is another discussion.

 

[Jtcf78911]

You're pretty brave typing "powerboat" on this site!!

 

[Davidasailor26]

I would use the electric pump to try bleeding the lines as Seahorse mentioned. When you turn the key you should hear at least 1 click of the pump per second. Much slower than that and the problem is likely that junk accumulated in the screen filter on the pump body itself. Our 28 didn't have a screen on the pickup tube (although who knows if a PO added one to yours), so the first filter to have problems was the one in the pump. I believe Stu has recommended putting the primary filter before the electric pump to prevent this.

As for testing on the hard - anything that allows you to suck (not force) water up a pickup tube into the impeller should work. Just be sure not to go into gear - the cutlass bearing likely wouldn't survive.