Odd Keel Damage
- Thread starter carbonrobot
- Start date
It looks as if some fairing compound used to smooth out the keel, or fill a void has gotten water behind it and broken free. It needs to be ground out, cleaned up and refilled. Not a serious problem and not structural. If the water is coming from inside the keel......say from the bilge to that area, then it might be traveling down a keel bolt, or something and then that has to be addressed. Otherwise it simply can be age or poor preparation when it was done the first time.
I was concerned there was something "special" at that section of the keel, but your probably right its just a bad repair job. I guess I will find out in the spring when it warms up enough to start working.
I would not assume it was a repair job. A shocking amount of filler can end up in finished keels. Void, defects, damage in the keel (in particular ones with complex shapes) make that scenario as likely as a repair.
What type of metal in the keel? Lead or iron? The 33 first came out in a lead keel and then later switched to cast iron.
As a dealer I have replaced keels both cast iron and lead. Therefore, I can only guess not being actually on site to see it in person. Generally, Mars Metals who cast the keels would not send out a keel with a large void that was filled in per their sales representative which I understood very well from a marketing standpoint. Quality is important to them.
That being said, I do see a major indentation just forward of the oval area in question wondering if something pointed underwater struck that keel. In the past I have seen where impurities have caused a small portion of a new keel to pop off but I feel this is too large for that. I do not feel that has any causal affect from any of the keel bolts as the keel is solid lead as I recall
Are you the original owner or did you purchase this boat from another owner? Would you be able to take a fine wire and put that down into the crack to see how deep it is? Can you tell from the edge of the crack if that is actually lead or a filler of sort?
That being said, I do see a major indentation just forward of the oval area in question wondering if something pointed underwater struck that keel. In the past I have seen where impurities have caused a small portion of a new keel to pop off but I feel this is too large for that. I do not feel that has any causal affect from any of the keel bolts as the keel is solid lead as I recall
Are you the original owner or did you purchase this boat from another owner? Would you be able to take a fine wire and put that down into the crack to see how deep it is? Can you tell from the edge of the crack if that is actually lead or a filler of sort?
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I am not the original owner. I can say for certain that a knife point will fit in the crack up to 1/8", but I have not tried with a wire. I won't get out to the boat for a couple weeks to see if I can poke around again.
What is popped out appears to be filler, but the snow has covered up my efforts to look further.
What is popped out appears to be filler, but the snow has covered up my efforts to look further.
Oxidation comes to mind on brown stains but lead I am not sure. I was a history major, not a metallurgist.
Carbonrobot, thank you for responding. Could that piece with the crack out of it be filler. If so, the likely cause the original PO may have hit something and lead was gouged out and filled with putty or it could have happened at the yard. I do not think the keel mfg. would send out a keel filling in that much as I have worked with them over the years. Let me know if that is filler what is encased by the crack or if it is actual lead. Scraping the paint off will tell.
Carbonrobot, thank you for responding. Could that piece with the crack out of it be filler. If so, the likely cause the original PO may have hit something and lead was gouged out and filled with putty or it could have happened at the yard. I do not think the keel mfg. would send out a keel filling in that much as I have worked with them over the years. Let me know if that is filler what is encased by the crack or if it is actual lead. Scraping the paint off will tell.
Not unusual to have some little iron or steel bits (foreign inclusions) in such a massive casting.. since keels are cast from "recovered" lead, there could be parts of wheel weights, etc in it. Since it would be the lightest stuff in the molten crucible, it would go down in the first part of the pour into the mold.. I don't think it is serious, but do check if it is filler and just re fill and fair it.. My feel would be that you'll find a rough void area behind that patch that was uncovered by Mars when they ground the end of the wing flat. They would have filled it with lead or epoxy and ground it flat.. If they used lead, it would have been tough to get enough preheat in the original piece to be able to pour in a patch.. the patch would have not bonded perfectly..? I dunno.. just commenting on stuff I've seen over the years when playing with castings.
Thanks everyone, I will update more when I get back out to the boat next week, its covered in snow and about an hour drive away.
Well, mystery solved! I pried away the loose portion and it looks like a repair using JB Weld! Rust had formed behind the repair, expanded, and pushed the material loose. Will have to make a proper repair before launching.
I have something similar going on with the lead keel on my Pearson 36 and will be grinding it down to refinish it too. With what will you make the repair? Will epoxy stick to lead? I'm not sure what products are out there for fairing a lead keel.
I will be grinding out the rust and immediately wetting out with epoxy. Then using an epoxy blend to fair and finish (west systems w colloidial silica). Epoxy sticks to lead quite well and will inhibit rust (nothing stops it 100%)
If the rust is more severe you can use a rust converter first before applying the epoxy.
If the rust is more severe you can use a rust converter first before applying the epoxy.