Jib Cleats

[Flamingo1]

I do not like my jib cleat/winch configuration and I am looking for some guidance or ideas as to how it should be set up. Previous owner has the cleat sitting on an unsightly ~2" wooden block and the cleat does not have any guide or other bracket on it. I will try to post a picture of it later today or tomorrow - but other cleats have a little loop that keeps the jib sheet above the cleat and allows you to tie a stopper knot to keep the sheet from going over the rail. Mine is just a clam cleat with no loop or sheet guide above it.

The 2" wooden block appears to be there to give the cleat more height so that it works better with the winch. It looks terrible. I can't imagine that the boat was so equipped when it was launched in 1972, so I would really like to see what it "should" look like.

On a related topic, I have seen the owner's manual and technical materials out there for the Catalina 22 from Catalina Direct, I believe. Are those materials worth purchasing? Has anyone bought the CD with the specs and other technical information on it? Perhaps that guide would have the depiction that I am looking for. Note that I have searched the internet for pictures, but you would be surprised how few people take photos of their jib cleats.

 

[Leeward Rail]

The Catalina Direct book is basically a large catalog of the stuff they sell.
It has some tech info related to installing their products, but nothing like the tech manual from the Catalina 22 National Association.

What year C22 do you have ? winches and line configuration is different on the 3 versions

 

[Flamingo1]

I have a 1972 full keel.

The winches need to be cleaned and rebuilt also - I think that is a product of spending so many years in the Arizona desert.

 

[CaptDon01]

A photo of your set-up will help. As for winch maintenance, I wrote a step by step article in the MainBrace earlier this year with lots of photos on how to completely disassemble, clean, lubricate, and reassemble the Lewmar winches that many of the C-22's have. You boat might not have Lewmar winches being a 1972 version, but the small boat winches are very similar in design.

For what it's worth, open top cam cleats work wonderful. On my original C-22, same deck version that you have, I had Harken cam cleats on the angled risers. You want the stopper knot so the sheet doesn't go past the jib blocks, not the winch cleats.

Your $25. membership to the National C-22 Association gives you access to over 40 years of everything and anything you need to know on rigging, tuning, modifying, cruising, racing, repairing, maintaining, and oh yes, enjoying your C-22. You'll be provided access to download your own PDF file containing over 400 pages of information.

Don

 

[gkmoore]

don,

I downloaded the Jan '15 Mainbrace, saw the winch article in the table of contents, but couldn't find it in the newsletter, can you offer any help? I plan to rebuild mine soon and would like to have your pics to assist me.

 

[Flamingo1]

This isn't my boat - but this is what I want to install. It appears that this isn't "typical" and the open top cam cleats are utilized more than this style. I have found it difficult to align the jib sheet quickly without having that top guide keeping the sheet in line....but I'm a rookie. Would welcome more input before I make this leap.

 

[Gene Neill]

I, personally, would not use that type of cleat. When you release the working sheet at the beginning of a tack, the sheet will remain wrapped around the winch, unless you take the extra time to pull it off. And in my experience, a sheet that remains wrapped around the winch often adds enough friction to make it a PITA to get the jib across the bow during a tack.

Getting the new working sheet cleated can indeed be tricky on this style of boat, but you do get better at it with practice. When I'm tacking, I try to pretty much throw the working sheet up in the air as I uncleat it, free of the winch, so it runs effortlessly through the car. Then immediately, I try to haul in the new working sheet and get it cleated before the wind can fully refill the jib and make it way harder to do. FWIW, I generally tack standing up, with the stick between my legs.

But knowing me, that's probably the worst way to go about it.

 

[justsomeguy]

When you release the working sheet at the beginning of a tack, the sheet will remain wrapped around the winch, unless you take the extra time to pull it off.

Winner!

 

[Jacktar]

I agree with Gene, wrong style of cam cleat , you want an open top one you can yank up on and release the sheet when tacking and this will keep the sheet from hanging up on the winch body from friction. Also the cam cleat in the pix is not lined up properly to match the direction the tail comes off of the winch. Just on a note, when you tack put the tiller over, and let the main come over first, then release the jib sheet so the jib backwinds and drives you around and only then sheet it in tight on the opposite winch. I avoids the dreaded caught in irons problem in lighter airs. see pix of correct orientation of camcleat to winch I have attached.

 

[CaptDon01]

Jib winch and cleat installation on the original versions, the MK-II's and Sports are easy, however, the narrow combing on the "new design" boats, (1986-1994), make it difficult. Self-Tailing winches are an option,(dig deep into your pockets). I've seen Capri-22's that had the similar issue use a jam cleat below the winch on the side of the cockpit backrest. That was going to be an option I was going to try on my recently sold new design C-22.

Don

 

[pclarksurf]

In fact I believe the proper name of that cleat is "extreme angle fair lead"-- definitely not the solution for your particular problem and completely agree that you don't want to lock in your jib sheets. You will be thankful someday for the ability to quickly dump the jib with a flick of your wrist.

 

[bushav]

I want those rubber self tailing adapters. Wrestling with my jib sheets is one of the less joyful aspects of Hoosier Daddy.

Lane

 

[$tingy Sailor]

For those that are interested, I have a review of the Barton Marine Winchers on my blog. Just click the picture below.

 

[CaptDon01]

For those that are interested, I have a review of the Barton Marine Winchers on my blog. Just click the picture below.
Ken, Those would be a great solution on the new design boats.

 

[Joe]

First.... jib sheet systems that use a winch should not have any kind of captive cleat. Dinghies with no winches are often equipped with cleats that have fairleads, however.... Your boat's previous owner knew his stuff and added the riser to the cleats to make for easier operation. When you go sailing on the boat you'll quickly find out that when you have the winch drum fully loaded with wraps, the sheet will be coming down at a sharp angle. If the cleat is mounted too low.. it will be difficult to engage.. and prone to slipping. Many boats of that era cam with a "jam" cleat.. it's a horn cleat with one horn shaped to "pinch" the line... holding it securely but making it easy to disengage under tension, I would stay with what you have now.... you could convert to an open cam cleat for an easier set.... but please...no fairleads... and the cleat goes behind the winch on jib sheets. On halyards... the cleat goes before the winch.

Now... about those Wincher things.... they are NOT going to turn your standard winches in to self tailing. So there is absolutely no point is putting them on a primary jib sheet winch. Without a "stripper" arm... the winch will require tailing.... YES you can use them to cleat the line like an ST winch... but that is the only thing they do... the downside is that when tacking the boat, the line is difficult to cast off the winch drum with the big rubber cap in the way,,,,, so a regular open cam cleat on a riser is much, much more efficient. Just remember... the lead block... between the sail and winch... will snag the stopper knot.... you don't need a fairlead on a cleat to do that.

When I had the Winchers I mounted them on my halyard winches.. .. they gave me a little grip when making small adjustments... and I could use the caps to cleat the line... but when I upgraded to line clutches years ago... IN THE TRASH they went..

 

[RussC]

They must have been making Winchers for many years. the 82' Mac 25 that I bought a couple months ago has them installed, and they look to have been on there a long time. I plan to keep them on the boat until I start sailing it next spring and decide weather to change to something else or not. there's also a horn cleat behind the winch.

 

[T_Cat]

Since Flamingo1's original post has a picture of my boat as a example, I though I'd chime in on that set-up.
1) I mounted the cam cleats in the same holes the factory cleats used so I could get a feel for what I wanted before I drilled more holes. (I figure another hundred tacks and I might decide what I want)
2) I added the extreme angle fairleads because by using the original holes the port side line-up is terrible. If you look closely the fairlead is reversed from it's normal position to lead the sheet into the cleat in a better alignment.
3) I was setting up to single hand and wanted a captive device and I use a figure 8 knot to keep the sheet from running all the way to the jib block. I would be unable to release the tiller to reach a loose sheet at the block.
4) The PO had all the necessary goodies including riser blocks in the tool box so I have lots of options to play with.
5) This is my first sailboat and I'm still learning.
6) So far this set-up has worked fine for me.

Russ

 

[allen-deckard]

This is my setup.
To be perfectly honest the most I've ever used my winch is also in the above picture. Works as a great drink holder.

I"ll be truthful I've used my winches maybe 3 or 4 times just to try them and wanted to try out the handle I bought that never got used.

To use the winches the angle of mine is off a little still works but is not quite right on the angle but otherwise it's spot on. I absolutely couldn't stand the jam cleats that the boat came with more than once I got myself in trouble more than once not being able to release the line from the cleat before I switched.