Cold Cockpit Shower

Brian S · Nov 27, 2015

I know you're asking about a pressure water system, but you did ask for the "best bang for the buck"

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/shower/index.htm

Benny17441 · Nov 27, 2015

I very much like your idea of adding a pressurized water system to the boat but, have to suggest that if you are going that far why not incorporate the fittings for a propane water heater just for taking showers. I do not mind showering in the cockpit in cold weather as long as the water is warmer than the ambient temperature. Go ahead and google Eccotemp propane tankless water heaters; with an adapter you can run it from a 1 lb. camping bottle and they even bring their own shower hoses and fixtures.

Ted · Nov 27, 2015

I've got the Scandvic 12106 with a separate mixing valve for hot water on my boat. In general, Scandvic makes pretty decent quality products and its been working for 14 years. The one thing that has taken a beating is the plastic escutcheon and cap. UV is taking its toll but replacement parts are still available. Spring project number xxx for me.

Ted · Nov 27, 2015

You would need a 1/2" to 3/8" reducer fitting.

deltaten · Nov 28, 2015

the Eccotems are a "hang anywhere handy" unit that is self contained. Attach garden hose (adapted), screw in pound tank and go!!

CloudDiver · Nov 28, 2015

Just a general plumbing observation... When dealing with 12V systems (small pumps) and limited water supply (13.5 gal) isn't it always best practice to use smaller diameter water lines to restrict water flow and maintain pressure? My Toyhauler uses the blue and red PEX for all pressurized supply lines, it looks like it could be 1/2" but I'll bet the inner diameter is 3/8". My 2 cents is that I would reduce all lines to 3/8". I also use a specific shower head that creates a fine but strong spray even under low pressure to conserve water.

centerline · Nov 28, 2015

The size of the line does not matter, because in this instance the pressure will be more related to the size of the opening where the water comes out...
in general the small diameter lines will cause a reduction in pressure while the water is flowing... a larger diameter line will allow the available pressure to be maintained all the way to the spigot, providing the pump supplies enough volume.
The equasion is related to the amount of flow vs the friction on the inside walls of the pipe.
Low flow will cause less friction and maintain pressure, where as more flow will create more friction but with less pressure... so with any given pump, either slowing the flow, or installing a larger diameter supply line will allow the most pressure at the spigot...

water traveling thru pipes has the same basic charactoristis as electricy flowing thru wires..... no matter how much input you have at the starting end, if you dont have the right sized delivery line, you cant get what you need out of it at the other end.
And like electricity, the length of run vs the size of the delivery line matters... if you want efficiency at peak usage...

Stu Jackson · Nov 28, 2015

Matt,

Most boats in the 23 (yours) to 34 (mine) and even larger, use 1/2 inch hose for domestic plumbing lines.

Most pumps available for domestic water on boats are rated at GPM, pressure & number of outlets (faucets). Even on larger boats with say three faucets, they are rarely used all at the same time, so lower flow & pressure pumps are perfectly adequate.

centerline is right about pumps, pipes and flow.

IIRC, my OEM Shurflo pump is rated at 3 gpm and 45 lbs. pressure. It works great. Remember, also, that the max GPM is reduced by how open the faucet is.

Scandvik makes great products.

West Advisor: http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Pressurized-Freshwater-Systems

The smallest Shurlfo and WM pumps are 2 gpm anyway.

I recommend Shurflo over WM or Jabsco.

Avoid the variable speed pumps, they have had a history of not working well.

Easy to find reducers for connecting two different size pipes/hoses.

Good luck.

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Nov 28, 2015

Duckworks shower-Never moves

centerline · Nov 29, 2015

Stu Jackson said:
Matt,
I recommend Shurflo over WM or Jabsco.

Avoid the variable speed pumps, they have had a history of not working well.

yep.... Stu has a great point. the variable speed pumps work good on paper, and even reasonably well in the real world as long as you have oversized delivery lines... but they are problematic delivering adaquate pressure and flow when the lines are "normal" sized for a standard pump, or where they may be a bit undersized.

this is kind of off subject, but my first experience with a variable pump gave me a strong feeling that the pump was actually faulty.... so I bought a new 4gpm variable speed pump for use in my ATV trailer, where I use an on-demand propane hot water heater.... even though I DONT and never would recommend it for use in a boat, its one of the greatest inventions ever for land based outdoorsmen. its fully portable and can be set up on a creek bank, water hole, tank, barrel, or anywhere there is a supply of water and a propane bottle.
once you hook it up and turn it and the pump on, its fully automatic. so when you demand hot water by opening the hot water spigot, it delivers hot water. but anyway.... these on demand hot water heaters do not work correctly with a variable speed pump due to the variable pressure it tries to deliver with its variable flow... it confuses the pressure sensing igniter because it does not recognize the variable flow and pressures as being normal... one can delete the pressure sensor on the unit, but then, with the variable pump, there is a good chance of a boiler explosion, albeit a small explosion, but very scalding to a naked body....
so... never use the propane on demand heater on the boat, never taper with the pressure sensor and always avoid the on demand water pumps for any application...

Stu Jackson · Nov 29, 2015

centerline, the C355s were plagued with bad variable speed pumps, I forget the brand. It took literally a few years for the manufacturer to finally get ones that worked to the skippers of those boats. Solstice may have the info. In some applications they may work and the vendors may have actually figured it out by now.

For Bad Obsession's case, I was suggesting he avoid it because his boat is small and simple.

The case for variable speed pumps and for accumulators for that matter is they avoid the on/off noise our regular pressure pumps make. Somehow I never found that minor noise objectionable at all, some do, I dunno why.

My choice was simple: I WANT TO KNOW when it IS working. A few years ago it was cycling, but "only" once every three minutes, which I wouldn't have heard if I was up in the cockpit. It was a great indicator of a leak.

I ended up replacing my 18 year old water heater and the plumbing hoses, all is now fine.

Your boat, your choice.

centerline · Nov 29, 2015

Stu Jackson said:
centerline, the C355s were plagued with bad variable speed pumps, I forget the brand. It took literally a few years for the manufacturer to finally get ones that worked to the skippers of those boats. Solstice may have the info. In some applications they may work and the vendors may have actually figured it out by now.

For Bad Obsession's case, I was suggesting he avoid it because his boat is small and simple.

The case for variable speed pumps and for accumulators for that matter is they avoid the on/off noise our regular pressure pumps make. Somehow I never found that minor noise objectionable at all, some do, I dunno why.

My choice was simple: I WANT TO KNOW when it IS working. A few years ago it was cycling, but "only" once every three minutes, which I wouldn't have heard if I was up in the cockpit. It was a great indicator of a leak.

I ended up replacing my 18 year old water heater and the plumbing hoses, all is now fine.

Your boat, your choice.

it may be possible that the manufactures may have worked out the problems with the variable run pumps by now, but im already soured on the idea of them. neither application I tried to use them in worked.
a standard pump is about 2/3rds the price of its variable counterpart, and a standard pump with a simple accumulator in the system will do the same thing, and a much better job if you have smallish lines.

the pump still runs with an installed accumulator, but instead of the surging of pump and pressure that is so common, the accumulator keeps the pump from the continual surging, and supplies the water at a steady pressure.
if you have the larger shurflo accumulator, then its possible to run a pint or a bit more of water without ever cycling the pump. the accumulator is a nice addition.

and the garden sprayer with a kitchen dish spayer attached to it would be great for the shower option, and would undoubtebly conserve more water..... we use a coleman shower bag on our 25. it works acceptable for washing our hair, pits and bits, and by wetting, soaping up and scrubbing all over before rinsing, the both of us can shower for less than 3 gallons of water.
the pain of it is, putting up with the bag swinging around as its hoisted overhead on the boom, but I helped that situation by installing a piece of surgical tubing for the shower hose. its longer and more flexible, so the bag can swing all it wants to without pulling the nozzle out of our hands.

Siamese · Nov 29, 2015

I like to keep it simple, and I'll try to describe what has worked for me. And by the way, I REALLY appreciate a nice warm shower. My day is diminished if it doesn't start with a good shower.

I started with a plastic bucket (actually, a large kitty litter container) of about 3 or 4 gallons. And a little hand pump that I got at a big box for about 8 bucks. I mounted the hand pump on the bucket up by the rim by drilling a couple small holes up by the rim and fastening the cylinder of the hand pump with nylon zip ties. A plastic hose runs to the bottom of the bucket to suck up the water. On the out end of the hand pump I installed a 4 foot flexible hose.

I have a medium sized (2 quart?) kitchen pan that I use for pretty much all my galley needs. I filled it to within an inch of the top with water, and brought it to a boil in the galley. As soon as I had a solid boil (which brings the water to a known and repeatable temperature), I poured the contents into the kitty bucket. Then, added room temperature water to the boiling water until it felt like the right temperature for a good shower. Used a felt marker to draw a line on the bucket for future reference. Took the bucket up to the cockpit, sat down, put the bucket next to me, started working the pump, and water of the perfect temperature soaked my head and the rest of me.

I was concerned whether this amount of water was going to be enough for a shower-hog like me. It's more than enough. Because it's a hand pump, you don't waste any water. You can stop pumping while you soap and scrub. And when you start pumping again, the water's still at the perfect temperature, so you don't waste any adjusting the temperature and theres no cold jolt. I find that I have enough perfect temp water to get thoroughly soaked, scrubbed, and rinsed, with enough left over for the grand finale. Lift the bucket over your head and dump it. Awesome.

The only improvement I plan to make is to replace the hand pump with some sort of a foot pump or possibly a small battery powered pump.

The keys to this system are:
-It uses fixed amounts of hot and cold water, so the water is ALWAYS at the right temp.
-No water is wasted
-The water hose is in your hand and can be directed at those hard to reach areas
-Even a shower hog will be satisfied with this shower
-It doesn't require hanging a heavy bucket above your head.

By the way, I have a water heater and a pressure water system on my boat. The water heater's no good when I'm at anchor unless I've run the engine recently. Also, I use a LOT less water with my bucket system.

Benny17441 · Nov 29, 2015

I still to this day carry a sun shower 5 gallon bag aboard. Haven't used it in a while but would not hesitate to bring it out if the other alternative was a cold shower.

Cold Cockpit Shower

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