Improving a 1988 catketch battery/charging/management

[GreatKetch]

Hello Folks,

This is my first post so I thank you in advance for your support and patience.

I have learned a great deal regarding electrical matters from this portal and have invested in tools based on many recommendations from those who use this portal as well. I still have so much more to learn. I am hoping you can offer direction and suggestions to not only help me learn, but to make my boat safer in terms of battery, wires, charging connections, and management.

CatKetch Setup:
One starter battery
Two Deep cell house batteries as one bank in a locker under seat in cabin -- no path to external venting
Xentrex TrueCharge40+ wired to a Powerline device (Perhaps Isolator)
Yanmar GM20 with 55amp Hitachi alternator
Powerline Isolator - looks like the Alt is attached to one side and the three connections on the other side are connected to the batteries.

I have uploaded a drawing of the connections for Alternator, Charger, PowerLine, batteries, ground, etc..

I need to add fuses in the battery lockers, - a huge "oh my" upon reading of the importance of such on this portal. I also need to redo wire connections. I also discovered that the wires for the battery are not tinned.

I am interested in hearing how the system could be improved based on the data provided. For example, should the Powerline be replaced with a ASR? Does it make sense to replace Alt with one that has external regulator?

Our goal:
To make the system easier to understand.
To make the system safer
To make the system more efficient
To be able to monitor and maintain battery power conditions

There are so many things to think about that my mind is overloaded with ideas; hence, suggestions regarding a strategy to take in overhauling the system is appreciated.

Personal thoughts:
Purchase SmartGuage
Fuse Batteries
Replace WetCell Batteries in non venting to outside locker with AGM -- will AGM be okay to store inside during the winter months in New York?
ASR for easy switching and battery separation when discharging and charging same.
External Regulator

Future Plans - I presently sail inland lake and plan to use CK for coastal and Bahama Island cruising. I have to think that technology has changed much in the past 25 years that an upgrade would be very beneficial.

Thank you,
GK

 

[mitiempo]

I would suggest replacing the Powerline Isolator with an ACR. Isolators have a voltage drop so the alternator's voltage setting (typically 14.4) becomes only 13.7 at the batteries.

You say you have 2 battery banks, but that there are 3 outputs from the isolator. The bank of 2 batteries can be treated as one battery and only need one connection. An ACR will wire between the battery banks with a small negative - all properly fused.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A

In addition to the battery fusing and the addition of a Smartgauge on your list that would be my first suggestion.

 

[GreatKetch]

Thank you, mitiemp, for your suggestion.
I am still researching how the wire connection would work for the ACR. For example, if I were to swap the powerline isolator with the ACR, the wire from the alternator would connect to the ACR and the two separate battery banks would then connect to the ACR.

Where would I run the wires that were connected to the powerline isolator? would I also connect it to the same terminal of the ACR?

The schematic for the bluesea ACR gives two examples of wire connections for the ACR, but not enough to build confidence at the moment.

Alt ------> ACR -------> Starter Battery
| | |-------> House Bank
| |
| |<------TrueCharge Connection for Start battery or should the connections from the TrueCharge be connected directly to Batt post?
|<-----TrueCharge Connection for House battery

 

[GreatKetch]

update:
Please pardon my ignorance and I shall ask the question another way:

Would I need two ACRs? one from Alternator to each each batteries bank and a second from TrueCharger battery charger?

My guess is that the TrueCharge could be connected directly to each battery bank and that it must have its own way of isolating the batteries upon their discharge state.

Thank you,

 

[Maine Sail]

CatKetch Setup:
One starter battery

Good just be sure it can do duty as a reserve battery in the event you should lose your house bank.

Two Deep cell house batteries as one bank in a locker under seat in cabin -- no path to external venting.

Vents are easily installed and should be. I prefer a vent at cabins sole level and then one at the high pont just below the seat cushion. This creates a "chimney effect" and gives better movement of air through the compartment.

Xentrex TrueCharge40+ wired to a Powerline device (Perhaps Isolator)

Get rid of the isolator and run all charge sources, including the charger, directly to the house bank. A fuse in anything connecting to the house bank should be within 7" of teh positive battery terminal. Insert an ACR between teh house bank positive terminal, or its busbar, and the start battery positive terminal.

Yanmar GM20 with 55amp Hitachi alternator

In terms of battery health, when off cruising, these alternators are absolutely horrible. If you only go out for weekends and tie back to a shore charger during the week they will work sufficiently but for cruising they are a very poor choice. Replace it with a higher performance alternator and an external regulator.

Powerline Isolator - looks like the Alt is attached to one side and the three connections on the other side are connected to the batteries.

Do you have a Dinosaur saddle in your garage? If you don't, then a move into the 21st century is in order here too. A diode isolator on top of a Hitachi alt spells short life for cruising batteries. Again all charge sources feed to the house bank, properly fused, preferably direct to its busbar, including alt, solar, wind, shore charger etc.. An ACR is then placed between the two banks positive terminals and does the rest automatically.

I have uploaded a drawing of the connections for Alternator, Charger, PowerLine, batteries, ground, etc..

See above...

I need to add fuses in the battery lockers, - a huge "oh my" upon reading of the importance of such on this portal. I also need to redo wire connections. I also discovered that the wires for the battery are not tinned.

When dealing with messes like this it is often far faster and easier to rip all the old large gauge wire out and start from scratch.

I am interested in hearing how the system could be improved based on the data provided. For example, should the Powerline be replaced with a ASR? Does it make sense to replace Alt with one that has external regulator?

Yes replace the isolator with an ACR
Yes replace the alternator or at the very least convert it to external regulation. Be careful though these are not "heavy duty" alternators and can't often handle an external regulator, unless you go into the settings and derate the output by 25-30% +/-..

Our goal:
To make the system easier to understand.

This is good!

To make the system safer

This should be priority #1 on a cruising boat.

To make the system more efficient

The alternator and the ACR will make the system charge considerably better and faster compared to the isolator and Hitachi. It will also be a lot more healthy for your batteries.

To be able to monitor and maintain battery power conditions

The easiest and most simle tool I know of, for battery monitoring, is the Balmar Smart Gauge.

There are so many things to think about that my mind is overloaded with ideas; hence, suggestions regarding a strategy to take in overhauling the system is appreciated.

Make sure you have real deep cycle batteries not glorified automotive batteries simply labeled as "deep cycle". 6V golf cart batteries are some of the best value for the money that you can use.

Personal thoughts:
Purchase SmartGuage
Fuse Batteries

Bingo!

Replace WetCell Batteries in non venting to outside locker with AGM -- will AGM be okay to store inside during the winter months in New York?

I would not recommend this and your money is better spent elsewhere. The venting requirements for AGM or GEL are exactly the same as for flooded batteries. You need to cut some vents in and this is usually very easy...

These are the battery compartment vents on a pretty high end 42 footer. Simple yet very effective as well as ABYC compliant..

ACR for easy switching and battery separation when discharging and charging same.
External Regulator

Yep..

Future Plans - I presently sail inland lake and plan to use CK for coastal and Bahama Island cruising. I have to think that technology has changed much in the past 25 years that an upgrade would be very beneficial.

Thank you,
GK

For lake sailing and short over nights the alt is less critical but once you head off cruising you will want a good and reliable charging system and probably solar too.

 

[GreatKetch]

Thank you, MS.
Based on one of your comment regarding ventilation, I do feel that the battery locker in the cabin may be fine.
There is a vented side to which air could pass through the panel. I had the impression from an earlier reading that the locker needed to have a hose or tube leading from the battery locker to the outside. Such a design would not be the case as in my boat.

Still working on the redesigning the battery set up, and I am thinking that I shall move the starter battery from the cockpit locker and locate it in the same battery locker located in the cabin that holds the house batteries. There is enough room to contain the three batteries with room to add a fourth.

By locating the batteries in the same location I think the benefits of the wiring and possible switches can help in the maintenance and management of the batteries. Inspection of battery terminals are easier as well.

I shall replace the battery wires too. Updates will follow .... Thank you,

 

[Maine Sail]

Thank you, MS.
Based on one of your comment regarding ventilation, I do feel that the battery locker in the cabin may be fine.
There is a vented side to which air could pass through the panel. I had the impression from an earlier reading that the locker needed to have a hose or tube leading from the battery locker to the outside. Such a design would not be the case as in my boat.

Still working on the redesigning the battery set up, and I am thinking that I shall move the starter battery from the cockpit locker and locate it in the same battery locker located in the cabin that holds the house batteries. There is enough room to contain the three batteries with room to add a fourth.

By locating the batteries in the same location I think the benefits of the wiring and possible switches can help in the maintenance and management of the batteries. Inspection of battery terminals are easier as well.

I shall replace the battery wires too. Updates will follow .... Thank you,

The requirement s for the gas to actually make it outside the compartment and eventually out of the boat. Any boat with dorades, solar vents etc. or any sort of passive or active ventilation will allow battery gas (lighter than air) to rise out of the boat and be "vented" to the outside. If your boat is sealed up tighter than a drum, this would be extremely rare, then some sort of direct vent to outside would be necessary,