It's just not done?

Feb 20, 2011
8,062
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Thanks to all for your perspectives.
I'm going to head back down and check with the only yard there that operates a travel lift, and coordinate with the seller to have her hauled at my expense.

I don't believe there's another potential buyer, but if the boat happens to get sold out from under me, c'est la vie. Plenty of boats out there. It's just that this one is close at hand.
 
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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
I'm going to head back down and coordinate with the seller to have her hauled at my expense.

I don't believe there's another potential buyer, but if the boat happens to get sold out from under me, c'est la vie. Plenty of boats out there. It's just that this one is close at hand.
good decision!

what is meant to be, will be.... and just because its close doesnt mean its the best choice in that price range. more boats are coming on the market everyday so you can still do a lot of lookin' before saying "I do" to any particular boat..:biggrin:
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I've got that Challenger ketch back in my sights, and received an in-the-water infomal survey from an unknown source. During early communications, he mentioned that there were more possible buyers than myself, :poke:
Anyway, the guy wasn't too excited about my thoughts regarding the haul out and bottom cleaning expenses shared between all these possible buyers.

Is this just not done?

Occam's razor?
You don't want to find yourself bidding against other buyers who would then know as much, or as little, as you would about the boat either plus or minus. You'd have none of the negotiating power at that point that you would have if you were the only "buyer" taking the risk to have a good look at the boat. [It actually is possible for two people to be interested in the same boat at the same time!!] Besides, if you don't want the boat you might be able to sell the survey document to the next "interested" potential buyer, and recover some, maybe half, of your outlay. Amortize the survey cost that way if you can.
 
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Jun 21, 2004
3,116
Beneteau 343 Slidell, LA
Charlie had a very valid point. Owners/brokers are not going to allow you to haul the boat for a survey unless they have a legal purchase agreement in hand, specifying the agreed upon purchase price, pending results of a sea trial and haul out survey. So, there wouldn't really be any way that anyone could share in the cost of the haulout survey, because you would have already reached an agreement on price at that point in time. Any deficiencies found during the sea trail or haulout would allow you to re open the negotiations again (lower price or have the yard complete repairs at owners expense or shared expense). Of course, you also have the right to walk away from the deal without any penalty. Just make sure all of the above is clearly written in the purchase agreement.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,432
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Besides, if you don't want the boat you might be able to sell the survey document to the next "interested" potential buyer, and recover some, maybe half, of your outlay. Amortize the survey cost that way if you can.
That's actually a great idea if there were a way that a subsequent "interested party" could actually find out that you have already done the survey. I don't know how that fact would become known. It's not like you can put an ad out for the survey that you no longer need!
Regardless, the informal survey sure sounds enticing, don't it? Good luck! Could she actually be as sweet as she sounds on paper? It's worth finding out, I think ...
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
That's actually a great idea if there were a way that a subsequent "interested party" could actually find out that you have already done the survey. I don't know how that fact would become known. It's not like you can put an ad out for the survey that you no longer need!
Regardless, the informal survey sure sounds enticing, don't it? Good luck! Could she actually be as sweet as she sounds on paper? It's worth finding out, I think ...
You ask the broker if there have been any recent surveys on the boat; say, within the past two years. He'll know if someone surveyed and then rejected a boat listed with him; so he has to tell the truth. If he does not know b/c he's a brand new listing agent, you can ask him to ask the seller if that boat has been surveyed recently. If so, then the seller will probably say so. It's in his interest to disclose, if asked, what he knows about issues discovered in a prior survey b/c they will be discovered in the next one unless he fixed the stuff. If he did, he'll want you to know that he fixed it. If you walk away yourself, you tell the broker that you'd be willing to "share" the survey document with the next guy (if any) for, say, half the price of the haulout + survey. The last two boats I was interested in I was given, at my request, prior surveys that caused the boat to be rejected by those earlier prospective buyers. I was not asked to pay b/c the seller had copies of them (i.e., but he did not pay for them as far as I know). If I had paid for a survey myself, however, I don't think I would allow the seller to give the documents to someone else w/o cost sharing. You can review prior survey documents w/o having to make a legal offer b/c the boat is not off, nor will be off, the market pending survey at that time. Also, FYI, after seeing the prior survey documents I declined in both instances to make an offer. Just saved everybody a lot of time and expense except for the unfortunate souls who paid for those surveys initially.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Besides, if you don't want the boat you might be able to sell the survey document to the next "interested" potential buyer, and recover some, maybe half, of your outlay. Amortize the survey cost that way if you can.
Thats technically in violation of every survey agreement I've ever had done or seen. They all state that they are for the exclusive use of the person that paid for it. Typically:
This report is submitted in confidence for the exclusive use of CUSTOMER-NAME without prejudice to the rights and/or interests of other concerned parties and may not be used for any other purpose or relied upon by any other person.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Thats technically in violation of every survey agreement I've ever had done or seen. They all state that they are for the exclusive use of the person that paid for it. Typically:
Interesting. The last time my insurance company ordered up a survey of my boat at the time, the company offered to "sell" me a copy of it. I declined, but the company sent me a list of the things I needed to get fixed for my insurance to continue. If you order and pay for a survey for insurance purposes, what is their "right" to see it, if any? The company would certainly be relying on it to decide the insurability of the boat, etc. If I surveyed a seller's boat and then told him he had to fix--da; da, da; da, da--b/c the survey said so (but it's confidential for my eyes only); how far would that go? I'm not sure what that statement means except that it has the flavor of a "disclaimer" probably put there by lawyers for CYA.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Interesting. The last time my insurance company ordered up a survey of my boat at the time, the company offered to "sell" me a copy of it. I declined, but the company sent me a list of the things I needed to get fixed for my insurance to continue. If you order and pay for a survey for insurance purposes, what is their "right" to see it, if any? The company would certainly be relying on it to decide the insurability of the boat, etc. If I surveyed a seller's boat and then told him he had to fix--da; da, da; da, da--b/c the survey said so (but it's confidential for my eyes only); how far would that go? I'm not sure what that statement means except that it has the flavor of a "disclaimer" probably put there by lawyers for CYA.
If you have a survey done, your insurance company can legally see it via this part of that clause:
without prejudice to the rights and/or interests of other concerned parties
They are an interested party.

Clearly the goal is partially to prevent a person from 'selling' it after having a survey done. A lot of this has to do with TIMING, an insurance company will want to see a survey that was just completed.
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,536
-na -NA Anywhere USA
AS a former dealer and involved with sales, I heard so much in the years being in business. First you do not know the guy nor the boat. As a buyer, you would want to know everything about the boat. Forget that the buyer says there are others interested. Concentrate as if you are the only buyer. What you could do like suggested is to walk that dock and see what is being said as to the condition of the boat and seller. You will learn a lot. Then do an inspection yourself. The first to look at is the condition of the engine housing and if filthy, then expect what to find based on that observation alone. If the engine housing is kept clean, then expect to find the rest of the boat that way. If seriously interested, then request a survey but the owner does not have to pay for that unless negotiated later when purchasing that boat. Put yourself in the owner's shoes and would you want to pay for a survey or haulout when someone was merely interested in buying the boat? You could ask the seller if the boat had been recently surveyed and if you could have a copy. If he is willing without hesitating to give that to you, then it says a lot about the seller. I learned a lot that way alone when thinking of a trade in on a purchase of a new sailboat. Remember there is no car max reports on sailboats.
 
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Jul 4, 2015
436
Hunter 34 Menominee, MI; Sturgeon Bay WI
This summer I paid $300 for haulout fees and $600 for the marine survey on my Hunter 34; I don't regret it for an instant; it gave me peace of mind and as mentioned above there were things the surveyor missed but at least I knew I did due diligence and had that bit of peace of mind. I would recommend not muddying up the waters with other buyers etc.

The survey and haulout should be entirely for your benefit and no one else; hence you pay the bills.
 
Jul 4, 2015
436
Hunter 34 Menominee, MI; Sturgeon Bay WI
The seller has other buyers? You have lots of other boats available on the market
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
from reading your post jsg i am thinking that you are letting the stars blind your vision on this boat....stop and take a deep breath ...go hunt some other boats for a while and if you come back to this one it may well be the one but go shopping first so you will know ......from the pics of that boat it is a roomy one ...but i suspect there will be a lot of work getting her ship shape to your wife's satisfaction ...hell you may even decide to stay like you are for now.... good luck and happy hunting
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,062
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
from reading your post jsg i am thinking that you are letting the stars blind your vision on this boat....stop and take a deep breath ...go hunt some other boats for a while and if you come back to this one it may well be the one but go shopping first so you will know ......from the pics of that boat it is a roomy one ...but i suspect there will be a lot of work getting her ship shape to your wife's satisfaction ...hell you may even decide to stay like you are for now.... good luck and happy hunting
It is quite a leap from the Mac 25, and pretty daunting. I may well look back at these trailer sailor days as being much less complicated.

She was once hauled out here in Rocky Point, but that was about 5 years ago.

ketch on the hard - Copy.JPG
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Ok, I see your point better and agree that that would be the intended meaning of the prejudice clause you cite; also that the surveyor probably would not want it sold to, or used by, a third (or outside) party some time afterward for decision making. I suspect, however, one intent there (CYA) is to make it clear that the surveyor is not liable for the consequences of any decisions made by third parties on the basis of a dated survey that the party did not purchase from him directly. So who, still, is the use statement directed to?: and may not be used for any other purpose or relied upon by any other person. If I sold a survey document it then becomes the buyers decision to "rely" on it; not mine. It'd be more clear if the statement carried the same kind of explicit no-nos of, say, copyrighted materials, about resell or distribution of the document, etc. Of course, the seller of a survey document to a third party would be breaking the "in confidence" aspect of the document as you cite it. The seller/owner of the boat might have recourse if done w/o his permission and he found out about it later where it caused him to perhaps lose the sale of the boat. In the cases I mentioned above the respective owners made the documents available. Also, those "negotiations" took place in Canada, not in the U.S.; so there may be a difference there with the legalities. Still, I agree now that the selling of a survey document to a third party w/o interest at the time of the survey and especially w/o the consent of the owner of the boat, would not be a wise, good, or fair thing to do.:badbad:
 
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Feb 20, 2011
8,062
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Today I met with Salvador who runs the only travel lift here in Rocky Point, and got a quote of $10.00/foot. $430.00 to haul the Challenger, $125.00 to pressure wash the hull. Wifey's freakin' out. ;)

Contrast that with my new dockmate's 46 foot Amel Santorin ketch, who paid $150.00 to haul out and $150.00 to refloat.

Of course, he was on the hard there for 6 months for a complete re-fit, so maybe that had something to do with it?
 
May 23, 2004
3,319
I'm in the market as were . Colonial Beach
$10 a foot is normal price around here. One of the last places I went was $10 a foot, about $120 for a pressure wash, and they charged me for blocking the boat (it was there for a week to be painted). That was for a 30 foot boat.

One of the few pleasures that I found in downsizing is my cheap haul out fee. It is FREE!!! Put her on the trailer and take her away.

Good luck with the haul and survey.