Where to fly a 2nd flag?

FredV

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Oct 16, 2011
148
Hunter 37-cutter Philadelphia, PA
As my daughter is a 2nd Lt. in the Marines, I’d like to fly the USMC flag along with the US flag on my boat. I have a 2’x3’ US flag that I plan to hang on a pole from the stern, but don’t know where to put the smaller USMC flag. Is it acceptable to put it on the same pole under the US flag, or should it be flown somewhere else.

All responses would be much appreciated!
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,445
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Flag etiquette stipulates that the US flag is flown highest. Flying the Marine colors below should be acceptable. 2X3 is the smaller flag!? Post some pics. Tell her Happy Veterans Day. Yesterday was the Marine Corps birthday.
Semper Fi !
 
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Jun 5, 2014
209
Capital Yacths Newport MKIII 30 Punta Gorda, Fl
My understanding is the American flag should be the highest flag, or flown as far aft as possible. The higher and farther back is the most respected location. See the sample below. I fly club burgees from my spreaders, jolly roger at the top of the mast, and the American flag off the rear stay about 1/3 the way up.



flaget.jpg
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Les

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May 8, 2004
375
Hunter 27 Bellingham, WA
Some years ago I did some research on how to fly flags and ensigns and signals. Previous to my research because of the "hippy movement" congress washed its hands and removed all laws pertaining to flying the American Flag. However, there are two main places where we get our flag culture--the U.S. Military which has many rules and orders and Chapman's who borrowed most of the rules and regulations from the military in 1917. I also went back further then the beginning of the United States and looked at Flag Etiquette in England and France, early sea powers. Essentially, you can fly any flag you want anywhere you want. I have friends who sail almost around the world (but got bored and come back to the northwest) and they flew a Swedish, Canadian and the U.S. Flag depending upon where they were and the response they might get. The flags are just signals telling others who you are (One of my friends was Swedish, his wife was Canadian and they sailed out of the U.S.)

Given all this, we do tack on a lot of traditions on our flags, look at some of our military flags with the abundance of battle ribbons attached--one can hardly hold up the flag because of the added weight. And the tradition of the sea is formable. At present most boats fly the American Flag off a staff at the stern of the boat. Some like to fly it three quarters up the backstay (except Hunters who don't have them) where the gaff of the main once flew years ago. Even then, skippers like to show their "colors."

In today's boats, we still follow a international tradition of flying the next important signal off the starboard shrouds because when ships of the line were tied up in port (on their port side) they wanted ships coming in to know who there were, what they were doing and in many cases, who owned the ship. Today most of us fly our yacht club burgee(s), the 12th man signal, USPS or USCG auxiliary burgees. I would think it would be honorable to fly the U.S. Marine Corp flag in this position. Your lesser valuable signals could be flown on the port side of your boat. Perhaps your martini flag?

In the process and looking up boating signals, I followed a thread on the Pirates Flag. As far as i could find, pirates didn't have a flag--they used a number of different national' flags to confuse the victim ship. But it appears that after WWII from movie sources the present day Pirates flag became popular and it's now flown for enjoyment (to indicate your mood?).

In summary (wouldn't you know an academic when you hear one?) you can fly any flag of importance to you from the any place that is easily seen by others, then fly your secondary important flag from the second most looked upon spot on your boat. For most of us that would be the stern and the starboard shrouds. Best wishes on your flag flying.
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
if you fly the flag at night make sure you have it lit up other wise retrieve it till day light
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
In summary, you can fly any flag of importance to you from the any place that is easily seen by others, then fly your secondary important flag from the second most looked upon spot on your boat.
except when in foreign waters.... fly that countries flag at the top, and your home countries flag below it.

as for the marine corp flag being flown on your boat in this country, its only a decoration and it can be flown anywhere.
there are places in the world where flying it could get you sunk :-(...
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,111
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
My understanding is the American flag should be the highest flag, or flown as far aft as possible. The higher and farther back is the most respected location. See the sample below. I fly club burgees from my spreaders, jolly roger at the top of the mast, and the American flag off the rear stay about 1/3 the way up.



View attachment 116984 .
NOTE that McIntoshUSA's diagram refers to flying the flag ASHORE!!!. On a sailing vessel the national ensign is flown from the STERN. Gaff rigged vessels may fly it from end of the aftermost spar. It is also acceptable to fly the flag from a point about 2/3 up the backstay, or even attach it to the leech of the mainsail. If you do that you could attach your marine corp ensign just below. If you had a topping lift, you could use it to run both flags up the backstay.
In any case, do not fly the national ensign from the spreaders or the top of the main mast as pictured above.
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
In any case, do not fly the national ensign from the spreaders or the top of the main mast as pictured above.
Joe, why is this?.. the largest majority of the sailboats ive ever seen fly a flag, will fly the national flag from the starboard spreader....
is this against local protocol, or some other rule that we dont know about?
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,111
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Joe, why is this?.. the largest majority of the sailboats ive ever seen fly a flag, will fly the national flag from the starboard spreader....
is this against local protocol, or some other rule that we dont know about?
Actually it is called "etiquette".. Here is the excerpt from Chapman's Piloting that discusses flag etiquette. http://www.annin.com/commercial/marine_flag_etiquette.asp
I have a small reference book that is a companion to the larger Chapman's Piloting that summarizes all things related to flags and displaying the national ensign.



The spreader's flag halyards are for displaying signal flags, courtesy flags... etc. Not the national ensign.

On Veterans Day.. it is important that we, as avid boaters, follow traditional protocol and courtesy when displaying our national ensign....
 
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Actually it is called "etiquette"..
well... we cant hardly be going against the rules of Etiquette if we want to be thought of as an old salty dog of the sea... so im gonna have to make a change.
I hope my radar tower will be recognized as a stern staff, cuz its gonna get a flag.. but I'll still fly the SBO and Cascadia Burgees from the spreader:)..
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,091
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
As my daughter is a 2nd Lt. in the Marines, I’d like to fly the USMC flag along with the US flag on my boat. I have a 2’x3’ US flag that I plan to hang on a pole from the stern, but don’t know where to put the smaller USMC flag. Is it acceptable to put it on the same pole under the US flag, or should it be flown somewhere else.

All responses would be much appreciated!
The US Flag or Yacht Ensign is flown from a staff mounted on the centerline of the yacht at the stern, or to starboard of the centerline at the stern; never to port. The USMC flag should be flown on its own halyard from the starboard spreader as an "association flag", usually from the lower, or lowest, one, respectively, if there are two or more spreaders. The rule is that no flag may be flown over the US Flag, not that no flag may be flown higher than the US Flag. It is totally wrong for a US registered yacht to fly the US Flag from a spreader regardless of how many sailboaters do it. However, a foreign registered yacht may do so as a "courtesy" flag when in US territorial waters.
 
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Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,666
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
I'm *finally* with Mr. Gambit on this subject. I formerly flew all my flags from the starboard spreader including the U.S. flag. I flew it with utmost respect and assumed it was correct since that's the way we fly them on flag poles. I have since changed my incorrect ways and fly the U.S. flag on the stern and all others from the spreader. See pictures attached.
Alert Texans will notice the Texas flag flown below the South Carolina flag. I fly it with utmost respect honoring our grandchildren from Texas when they sail with us. I fly the New York state flag when my Yankee in-laws sail with us. (I would fly the Washington state flag if Phil were to ever sail with me. *sigh*)
 

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Jul 27, 2011
5,091
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
If not flying something else from the std spreader, I may fly the California Flag there. Having an upper spreader, I sometimes fly the club burgee and officer flag below it up there, and other association flags on the lower stb spreader. Fun flags, etc, like the "Time Flies When You're Having Rum" go on the port-side lower spreader. Signal flags are flown on the port-side upper spreader, or on a halyard run to a port-side cheek block at the mast head, and flown up high where they might be seen at least, just in case somebody could read them. I admit it being an idosyncratic formula--beyond the basic of where to put the US Flag.
 
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Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
I'm *finally* with Mr. Gambit on this subject. I formerly flew all my flags from the starboard spreader including the U.S. flag. I flew it with utmost respect and assumed it was correct since that's the way we fly them on flag poles. I have since changed my incorrect ways and fly the U.S. flag on the stern and all others from the spreader. See pictures attached.
Alert Texans will notice the Texas flag flown below the South Carolina flag. I fly it with utmost respect honoring our grandchildren from Texas when they sail with us. I fly the New York state flag when my Yankee in-laws sail with us. (I would fly the Washington state flag if Phil were to ever sail with me. *sigh*)
Kermit you are looking a little pale today ...i think you need to do more sailing and sunshine:)
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,111
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
well... we cant hardly be going against the rules of Etiquette if we want to be thought of as an old salty dog of the sea... so im gonna have to make a change.
I hope my radar tower will be recognized as a stern staff, cuz its gonna get a flag.. but I'll still fly the SBO and Cascadia Burgees from the spreader:)..
For just a little extra effort you will be honoring the nautical tradition you've chosen to be part of.... I think the radar tower would be an excellent choice.
I highly recommend you get that book.. it's only $6.00.. I found my copy on the west marine book shelf. Anyhow... it will increase your stature among those that know flag etiquette. Those that don't may someday ask... but I never tell anyone they're doing it wrong. Though, I did purchase the book to leave in the cockpit of a guy who continually left his GIANT oversize flag flailing on the spreader halyard all summer, with a jolly rodger right next to it on the port side. I couldn't take it anymore.... Some folks just don't know.. it's not their fault.. if they do know and just don't care... well.... what can you do.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,091
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
ignorance is bliss but it sure plays hell with everyone around it
Flag etiquette is like the other ones we've discussed: anchoring etiquette, proper display of navigation lights, radio use protocol, etc. It's all the same; if there is no harm, then no foul, I suppose. Proper flag displays are a system of communication. Perhaps nowadays we should instead all fly our cell phone numbers in a banner from the mast head signifying: "Hey--if you want to communicate w/ me-- just call me on my cell phone." because, I don't have my freaking VHF radio on and can rarely hear it even if I do; I have no idea the meaning of those flags you're flying; or that strange-looking black ball in your foretriangle, & etc.
 
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Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
I highly recommend you get that book (chapman companion).. it's only $6.00.. I found my copy on the west marine book shelf.

Though, I did purchase the book to leave in the cockpit of a guy who continually left his GIANT oversize flag flailing on the spreader halyard all summer, with a jolly rodger right next to it on the port side. I couldn't take it anymore....

Some folks just don't know.. it's not their fault.. if they do know and just don't care... well.... what can you do.
the link that you posted to the Annin flag etiquette site is good... is the chapman companion book better?
I already have a current chapman piloting/seamanship book.

some folks just dont know.. thats understandable and forgivable. they can learn
some folks just dont know and dont care... thats ignorant. any thing new they learn will likely be by accident. literally.
some folks just dont know, but think they do, they really dont care about the facts, yet freely give advice... these are either teenagers, or if over 30 they already know all the useful information they are capable of learning.
 
Jan 6, 2010
1,520
I do it the simple way guys.

Only the American flag flies off my stern. A smaller flag (sometimes called a burgee) I will Fly from a halyard block attached to the underside of my spreader on my STBD side . I also have a cable cleat I have attached on my upper about 6 feet off the deck. The line is looped at the block to make raising & lowering a breeze. Sometimes I fly two burgees it just depends on how I feel.

CR
 
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