Winter cover ideas???
- Thread starter boblufkin
- Start date
Sure. 2x4 ridge beam supported by vertical 2x4 at the bow, mast and stern. Tie off from the ridge beam both sides to bow and stern cleats and tie to mast and forestay. Drape poly tarp and tie to trailer or weave ropes underneath the boat. USe tarp clips not the eye loops on the tarp.
I bought the grey farm hay tarp and lasted me 5 seasons. Make ridge high and the tarp tight same as they do the shrinkwrap, that way the snow doesn't stick and slides off.
Worked for 5-6 seasons, bought a custom tarp lat year.
I bought the grey farm hay tarp and lasted me 5 seasons. Make ridge high and the tarp tight same as they do the shrinkwrap, that way the snow doesn't stick and slides off.
Worked for 5-6 seasons, bought a custom tarp lat year.
Bob how long are you planning on keeping the boat?
I know a custom cover isn't cheap and I used tarps for our C22. But our C30 came with a fitted cover.
After having one I'll never go back and if we ever do move up to a bigger boat I'll have one made. It's worth it just for the peace of mind when a nor'easter is blowing or when we get the kind of snows we did last winter.
Ours came from Fairclough in New Haven. It was made in 1995 and it's still in very good condition - that's why I asked how long you plan on keeping her. It's a great investment. I have no connection to Fairclough, I'm just really impressed with the quality of their product.
Jim
Lifelines?
If your boat has lifelines then you must build supports as Scott B suggested to keep the snow from building up and stretching your cover inward enough to add a load to the lifeline stanchions. They will bend and destroy the fiberglass where attached.
If your boat has lifelines then you must build supports as Scott B suggested to keep the snow from building up and stretching your cover inward enough to add a load to the lifeline stanchions. They will bend and destroy the fiberglass where attached.
My lifelines are easy to remove so take them off every year. Tarp & now cover designed the same way fits tight to the rail and I tie tight underneath
I second that! Not being very experienced the first winter, I promptly covered my boat with a loosely fitted tarp. Water gathered in the cockpit area and the stress on the stanchion broke the fiberglass. Thus - my first experience with fiberglass repair. The fiberglass is about an inch thick underneath now!
Greg
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If I didn't have a boathouse for Compass Rose I would opt for an RV cover and modify it to fit my boat with a frame under made under the cover They can be purchased from Amazon for around 200 dollars. Chief
This will be my first winter storing the boat.
I'm in Canada so obviously we get snow.
Boat has a bow and stern pulpits, and lifelines
Mast will be down.
Any hard won advice ?
For this winter, I was simply going to put a tarp over the mast that is already sitting on the pulpits and a mast step support, and pull it down around the lifeline stanchions.
I have a nice new boat cover but I don't have time to modify it to go around the lifeline stanchions before the snow arrives.
I'm in Canada so obviously we get snow.
Boat has a bow and stern pulpits, and lifelines
Mast will be down.
Any hard won advice ?
For this winter, I was simply going to put a tarp over the mast that is already sitting on the pulpits and a mast step support, and pull it down around the lifeline stanchions.
I have a nice new boat cover but I don't have time to modify it to go around the lifeline stanchions before the snow arrives.
See all the posts above. Make sure the lifelines are protected and the tarp as high and tight as possible to not accumulate snow. I've had the best success when the snow doesn't sit on the tarp and weigh it down. Many other sin the marina had tarps collapse when there were spots for the snow to sit. This is the way they do shrinkwrap, which was what I copied many years ago.
Hey Scott !
Yeah I read the posts above. Especially your detailed one.
Ridge Pole Method:
I'm wondering how the ridge pole is stabilized by most people with their masts down.
You had your mast up and it was tied to the mast and stays and lines running to the cleats to stabilize it.
Since my mast is down, I'm wondering if 1.5" PVC running to the sides from the ridge pole is the best option for stability. Mainly wondering if someone came up with a simple method to keep the ridge pole in place and has an opinion on various support systems. The hoop method looks like a perfect way to bend stanchions, so building one with PVC elbows makes more sense to me.
Stanchions:
Why not wrap the tarp around the stanchions ? That would decrease the height needed and eliminate any chance of damaging them. Every custom cover I've seen had cutouts around the stanchions.
Why not eliminate the ridge pole along the whole boat ?:
I also seriously wonder if a ridge pole is needed. Why not simply put a cover over the hull, literally against the deck. It's not like the deck would collapse, and boat is on a trailer with bunks so the load is spread out on the hull, unlike the pads on stands.
I don't live in the east with all that "lake effect" snow.
The only area i could see being an issue is the cockpit. In that area I could put a short pole from the hatch to the rudder post.
I may just head to the lake this weekend and see the various ridge pole support methods that people used there and ask them if they had regrets of the design.
Yeah I read the posts above. Especially your detailed one.
Ridge Pole Method:
I'm wondering how the ridge pole is stabilized by most people with their masts down.
You had your mast up and it was tied to the mast and stays and lines running to the cleats to stabilize it.
Since my mast is down, I'm wondering if 1.5" PVC running to the sides from the ridge pole is the best option for stability. Mainly wondering if someone came up with a simple method to keep the ridge pole in place and has an opinion on various support systems. The hoop method looks like a perfect way to bend stanchions, so building one with PVC elbows makes more sense to me.
Stanchions:
Why not wrap the tarp around the stanchions ? That would decrease the height needed and eliminate any chance of damaging them. Every custom cover I've seen had cutouts around the stanchions.
Why not eliminate the ridge pole along the whole boat ?:
I also seriously wonder if a ridge pole is needed. Why not simply put a cover over the hull, literally against the deck. It's not like the deck would collapse, and boat is on a trailer with bunks so the load is spread out on the hull, unlike the pads on stands.
I don't live in the east with all that "lake effect" snow.
The only area i could see being an issue is the cockpit. In that area I could put a short pole from the hatch to the rudder post.
I may just head to the lake this weekend and see the various ridge pole support methods that people used there and ask them if they had regrets of the design.
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Last year I built a frame using 3/4" electrical conduit and clamps, connectors, feet, etc from www.koverklampframes.com. I also bought their tarp which is very tough but heavy. I made it high enough that I could do deck work on warmer winter days. The neat thing about it is they sell a labeling system for the frame members so this fall it will be a build by number frame.
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Luckily I'm not in the crowd that requires 'winter' storage because I live in Southern California. If I had to though, I would vote 'rig down' using the mast as the center post. If you are going to be laid up for more than 4 months I think its worth the time to take the rig down.
- I'd build a relatively cheap crutch for the bow pulpit, kind of like the one CD sells but make it taller so the mast sits up higher than it would while trailering... Keep the peak at a steep angle.
- Obviously you use the adjustable mast crutch on the stern if you have one, if not build a cheap version from 2x4 and it does not have to be fancy.
- make at least one if not two supports that will go mid mast on the cabin top, maybe one on fwd cabin and one aft cabin.
- I would also take life-line off if possible, but by this method I don't see any harm leaving them on. My preference would be to take all standing rigging, life-lines, and running rigging off and store that home. Hang on the wall in the garage, do maintenance in February to battle winter depression.
- Use Pool Noodle foam or similar and tape on the tops of life-line stanchions, spreader tips, and other vertical items that might put stress on the tarp. As a matter of fact, if you can pull the pin and remove the spreaders, this forces you to apply a new coat of tef-gel on the aluminum spreader in the spring and you'll never have to deal with the nightmare that I had with a corroded solid spreader in a stainless socket.
- If you remove life lines or not try this trick; Get 6 pieces of 3/4" PVC pipe x 8 ft ea. Use 3 per side with unions but don't glue them together, just press fit and you have 2 sections of 24 ft. Use zip ties on bow putlpit and stern rail to secure pipes to the top and curve it along the sides attaching to the top of stanchions. Even better, use 1 1/2" PVC pipe, drill a 1 inch hole in bottom edge so the stanchion top end just sockets in the bottom of the pipe and secure down with a zip tie. Now you have a smooth curved hand rail all the way around the hull the the tarp will not chafe on.
- Use the Heavy Duty 20 x 30 tarp from the big box store for $99 or find a better deal for similar on-line. Buy a pack or two of inexpensive ratchet straps. From the grommets on one side of the tarp, under the hull, to the other side grommets connect and tighten with ratchet straps. This is way more durable than twine or bungee cords and will keep the tarp taught, just don't over tighten. A spray of silicone lube all over the ratchet mechanism will keep them from rusting.
- Put 3 or 4 boxes of baking soda with the fabric side panels in the cabin. If you can, take all you cushions out and store at home. Put out some rodent traps if that is a problem in your area.
- I'd build a relatively cheap crutch for the bow pulpit, kind of like the one CD sells but make it taller so the mast sits up higher than it would while trailering... Keep the peak at a steep angle.
- Obviously you use the adjustable mast crutch on the stern if you have one, if not build a cheap version from 2x4 and it does not have to be fancy.
- make at least one if not two supports that will go mid mast on the cabin top, maybe one on fwd cabin and one aft cabin.
- I would also take life-line off if possible, but by this method I don't see any harm leaving them on. My preference would be to take all standing rigging, life-lines, and running rigging off and store that home. Hang on the wall in the garage, do maintenance in February to battle winter depression.
- Use Pool Noodle foam or similar and tape on the tops of life-line stanchions, spreader tips, and other vertical items that might put stress on the tarp. As a matter of fact, if you can pull the pin and remove the spreaders, this forces you to apply a new coat of tef-gel on the aluminum spreader in the spring and you'll never have to deal with the nightmare that I had with a corroded solid spreader in a stainless socket.
- If you remove life lines or not try this trick; Get 6 pieces of 3/4" PVC pipe x 8 ft ea. Use 3 per side with unions but don't glue them together, just press fit and you have 2 sections of 24 ft. Use zip ties on bow putlpit and stern rail to secure pipes to the top and curve it along the sides attaching to the top of stanchions. Even better, use 1 1/2" PVC pipe, drill a 1 inch hole in bottom edge so the stanchion top end just sockets in the bottom of the pipe and secure down with a zip tie. Now you have a smooth curved hand rail all the way around the hull the the tarp will not chafe on.
- Use the Heavy Duty 20 x 30 tarp from the big box store for $99 or find a better deal for similar on-line. Buy a pack or two of inexpensive ratchet straps. From the grommets on one side of the tarp, under the hull, to the other side grommets connect and tighten with ratchet straps. This is way more durable than twine or bungee cords and will keep the tarp taught, just don't over tighten. A spray of silicone lube all over the ratchet mechanism will keep them from rusting.
- Put 3 or 4 boxes of baking soda with the fabric side panels in the cabin. If you can, take all you cushions out and store at home. Put out some rodent traps if that is a problem in your area.
Since I'm covering a C22 that spends it's time out of the water, on it's trailer with the mast down, I'm looking at the following THREE options for a cover support:
Doing so just decreases the "roof" angle for shedding snow/rain, and increases cost and complexity.
Here's an example:
I'm guessing that the people that have the tarp over the lifelines are working or living on the boat during the winter ?
3) build a PVC support system for the cockpit area only
I have a commercially made cover that I was going to modify to fit around the lifelines, for summer storage.
In my case I'm wondering if I should just use that, and clean the snow accumulation off deck and out of the cockpit occasionally.
Unless I'm missing something, the big issue is the weight of the snow.
After all, it's a boat.. it's life is spent getting wet.
1) use a PVC pipe frame running from pulpits in an arch.
2) build PVC pipe supports for the mast, and use the mast, with spreaders removed, as the ridge pole.
Not sure why people with trailer sailers don't usually seem to do this ?
As long as the angle is steep enough, I can't see a huge risk of bending the mast.
I don't think I'll have the tarp go over the lifelines.
2) build PVC pipe supports for the mast, and use the mast, with spreaders removed, as the ridge pole.
Not sure why people with trailer sailers don't usually seem to do this ?
As long as the angle is steep enough, I can't see a huge risk of bending the mast.
Doing so just decreases the "roof" angle for shedding snow/rain, and increases cost and complexity.
Here's an example:
I'm guessing that the people that have the tarp over the lifelines are working or living on the boat during the winter ?
3) build a PVC support system for the cockpit area only
I have a commercially made cover that I was going to modify to fit around the lifelines, for summer storage.
In my case I'm wondering if I should just use that, and clean the snow accumulation off deck and out of the cockpit occasionally.
Unless I'm missing something, the big issue is the weight of the snow.
After all, it's a boat.. it's life is spent getting wet.
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I actually have 4 different levels of protection for my various "craft" the simplest is just a tarp tent, draped over the mast
The next level is the carport I keep my red "Ferrari" in. I made it from small diameter exhaust tubing. A buddy of mine has a muffler shop and lets me use his bender and tubing expander, so cost for me on that one was very low. benefit is that it's very portable, as well as inexpensive. a new Harbor Frt tarp is $20.00 every 4-5 years.
The next level is the metal carport with the truck parked in it. these are available in various sizes suitable for a boat for about $900.00, assembled on your property. I actually have 3 of these scattered around our place for multiple purposes. you just level out a spot and they come erect it for you. not taxable, they last pretty much forever, and they still "fit" when you buy a different boat every few years.
My fourth level is where I keep my Capri, which is a fully enclosed and lockable "boat port", which is basically just an oversize garage.
The next level is the carport I keep my red "Ferrari" in. I made it from small diameter exhaust tubing. A buddy of mine has a muffler shop and lets me use his bender and tubing expander, so cost for me on that one was very low. benefit is that it's very portable, as well as inexpensive. a new Harbor Frt tarp is $20.00 every 4-5 years.
The next level is the metal carport with the truck parked in it. these are available in various sizes suitable for a boat for about $900.00, assembled on your property. I actually have 3 of these scattered around our place for multiple purposes. you just level out a spot and they come erect it for you. not taxable, they last pretty much forever, and they still "fit" when you buy a different boat every few years.
My fourth level is where I keep my Capri, which is a fully enclosed and lockable "boat port", which is basically just an oversize garage.
OK. Here's my suggestion:
Don't cover it!
We have not covered our '77 h27 in 15 winters on the south shore of Lake Erie. I do replace the 5 teak boards around our hatch with pine "winter wood." That's all.
Snow and ice do not harm fiberglass or stainless. Snow actually protects the hull from the real enemy, UV radiation, which is also minimized by a low sun and lots of clouds.
There has been no noticeable damage to our hull or decks over that period.
Worth considering anyway.
Don't cover it!
We have not covered our '77 h27 in 15 winters on the south shore of Lake Erie. I do replace the 5 teak boards around our hatch with pine "winter wood." That's all.
Snow and ice do not harm fiberglass or stainless. Snow actually protects the hull from the real enemy, UV radiation, which is also minimized by a low sun and lots of clouds.
There has been no noticeable damage to our hull or decks over that period.
Worth considering anyway.
That's exactly what I was wondering.
The only real issue I could foresee is snow buildup on the deck, and especially in the cockpit, putting too much weight on the hull. In the water I can't see it an issue, but with the hull on the trailer it's held with a few pressure points.
UV damage to the teak on a C22 can be dealt with a small cover, over just the cabin top.
Do you clean the snow out of the cockpit ?
Sandusky, OH averages 23 inches of snow a year whereas we get 44 inches.
I don't want to keep having to drive to where the boat is stored, to check it's snow load.
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I estimate that 6 inches of snow on our decks and cabin is around 1,300 pounds, or a 19% added load on the hull and our cradle.
Our hull rests on the keel - the strongest point of the boat. The other 4 contact points serve to keep the boat from tipping under wind or other lateral loads. I'm not at all worried about the snow load on the keel.
Does your 22 rest on its keel (or similar structure) on the trailer? I would think it would. I would also think that Catalina could tell you what depth of a snow load the trailer and boat can carry.
Good luck!
Our hull rests on the keel - the strongest point of the boat. The other 4 contact points serve to keep the boat from tipping under wind or other lateral loads. I'm not at all worried about the snow load on the keel.
Does your 22 rest on its keel (or similar structure) on the trailer? I would think it would. I would also think that Catalina could tell you what depth of a snow load the trailer and boat can carry.
Good luck!
I believe that there are three main considerations that cause me to cover every winter. First is uv protection, especially the brightwork. Second is guarding against both deck leaks and freeze thaw cycles causing leaks under hardware. Third is to prevent broken scuppers from draining a full winters worth of snow into the engine room.
I am new to this so there may be better reasons for and con but this is my current game plan.
I am new to this so there may be better reasons for and con but this is my current game plan.
This is the main reason I cover my boat and built one that does not allow water to reach the lifeline stanchion bases.
With my C22, the Swing Keel, doesn't totally sit on the trailer when retracted.
When trailering, the lower end of the keel rests on it's bunk, simply because it's recommended to slack off the keel winch so that the some of the load of the keel is sitting on the trailer itself, once the boat has been loaded on it.
The upper end of the keel is a small distance above the trailer. Maybe an inch. That way it easily clears the trailer when launching/retrieving.
To have the keel take some of the load, the hull would have to flex enough for the upper end of the keel to touch the trailer, while the lower end of the keel was pushed upwards into the trunk.
So in this case the additional snow load is on the hull sections that rest on 2 bunks and a roller.
Unfortunately, I can't see Catalina being much help, since it's not the original trailer.
Most C22 trailers I've seen have all been different. Each one has slightly different bunk placements/widths/lengths,, which would change the loading.
That said, the boat should be ok but I'm not as sure as I'd like.
For that reason I've decided to put a tarp over the unstepped mast, covering the hatch and the cockpit.
This is mainly to protect the teak from UV damage and to only minimize snow drifting into the cockpit's "hollow".
The tarp is far from fully enclosing the cockpit, so ventilation won't be an issue.
I plan on checking on the boat occasionally to see how much the hull flexes with the snow that does accumulate and remove it if needed.
In the spring I'll remove most of the snow before it starts melting.
Unfortunately, I ran out of time to get my new powerboat cover modified in time to be able to use it on the sailboat for winter.
I think you concerns are valid, especially in your area of North America.
UV protection makes sense in any location. I've got a summer cover that, once fit to the boat, will protect the brightwork and deck from UV, and tree sap.
Assuming that someone has kept a handle on bedding hardware, and has potted all the deck hardware holes with epoxy, they shouldn't have leaks, and minimal risk from developing them.
With no leaks, I can't see how cold weather will do much of anything, unless the compound someone used for bedding becomes so rigid as to fail under cold temp contraction.
Of course, there is always a chance you could have an unknown minor leak that would be made worse by a freeze/thaw cycle.
In my climate, it simply gets cold in winter. We don't have many freeze thaw cycles.
Winter is here ! Winter is gone ! Fall and Spring are just ideas here.
In a more mild climate where a lot of wet snow, and variable temperatures occur, I can see how the risk would be much higher.
On later C22s the scuppers drain through the transom, so them leaking into the hull is not much of a concern unless the scuppers are leaking for some time and the transom delaminated.
IMO, covers have major location considerations.
A friend had his boat wrapped, and he stored it out on his farm beside some bush. Even with repellents, squirrels would get under the cover and make a home. On year they chewed his trailer wiring. Other times it was mice.
He no longer covers his boat, and it's no longer a cozy place to build a rodent home.
Someone with a boat stored in an urban setting likely wouldn't have the same animal problem.
Someone who lives in a humid, warm place would need to protect against rain, and moisture inside the cabin.
Someone, like me, who lives in a place where winter temps are cold, and the winter humidity so low as to require skin moisturizers, doesn't require the same level of ventilation and has more worry about having the roof sloped enough to shed the snow vs rain.
Then you have all the variances in between.
Until now, it's not something I really thought about.
Thanks for the "food for thought" !
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