Cetol application

woodster · Nov 8, 2015

Bob 04 H260 said:
I have used Cetol on the bit of teak we have on outside of our boat. It has lasted well and I'm pleased with the color. I didn't like how it went on, didn't level at first then got runs after it was thinned just a bit. A friend advised that he applies varnish to furniture with a rag rather than a brush and gets good results. He thins it down and applies a lot of coats. I'm just finishing a set of cockpit tables and wondering how the Cetol might work with this technique. Has anyone else tried this ?
Bob

i have a professional painter friend that recommended doing this with minwax helmsman urethane spar varnish ...he said to thin it 50% for the first coat let dry then thin 75% varnish/25% mineral spirits and keep adding coats ...i did it with teak oil and did 6 coats and got good results ...i think the key to this whole varnishing thing is lots of coats sorta like if you wonder if you have done enough ad another coat and see

Gene Neill · Nov 8, 2015

Bob 04 H260 said:
I have used Cetol on the bit of teak we have on outside of our boat. It has lasted well and I'm pleased with the color. I didn't like how it went on, didn't level at first then got runs after it was thinned just a bit. A friend advised that he applies varnish to furniture with a rag rather than a brush and gets good results. He thins it down and applies a lot of coats. I'm just finishing a set of cockpit tables and wondering how the Cetol might work with this technique. Has anyone else tried this ?
Bob

The instructions specifically say "DO NOT THIN".

BigEasy · Nov 8, 2015

I have used the 50-75 25% thinning technique with shellac, thinning with denatured alcohol and varnish, thinning with mineral spirits. Regarding Cetol, the application instructions specifically state DO NOT THIN. If you want to experiment with patio furniture or a cockpit table that is not subject to continuous sunlight exposure, you can certainly give it a try. I would not thin for items like handrails, companionway boards, etc on the boat because of the time and effort involved in surface prep. Personally, I want Cetol to last as long as possible inbetween reapplications. The solvent used for wipe down after sanding Cetol is Interlux special thinner 216. The main component in this thinner is Xylene that can be purchased from the big box home stores. If you do thin, you would use the Interlux 216 or Xylene.

DougM · Nov 8, 2015

Personally not in love with Cetol, mostly because of its color and translucency. It does emphasize on the can not to thin it. One thing that really helps in the application process is to use really high quality brushes. Cheap brushes don't help the flow characteristics .

BigEasy · Nov 8, 2015

I used Cetol on my handrails & other misc teak items and I am fairly pleased with the results. Two years and holding up well in southern climate. I used two coats of Cetol natural teak followed by two coats of Cetol Clear gloss. It really allows the wood grain to show thru the sealer; however, not as clear as varnish. I agree that the original cetol was very transparent and did not allow much grain to show--looked too much like paint. I am experimenting with Semco on the teak seating surfaces. It doesn't look as good as the Cetol surfaces; however, it is much easier to apply with no surface prep. It keeps the teak looking new; however, there is no gloss or satin appearance at all. It has to be reapplied 2 to 3 times per year. Wash, dry, and reapply with no sanding. Cetol is very tenacious; very difficult to strip down to bare surface if you have to. Like most things, you really have to keep up with the maintenance and recoat before it breaks down and requires complete removal. I can appreciate that Cetol is not for everyone; however, it does hold up very well.

Chris Patterson · Nov 8, 2015

Slop it on with a mop. It doesn't matter, it's Cetol..

Joe · Nov 8, 2015

Chris Patterson said:
Slop it on with a mop. It doesn't matter, it's Cetol..

LOL

The only reason to use Cetol is its ease of application. Otherwise, A $20 qt of Helmsman spar urethane from the big box store will produce much better result with similar effort.

kenster01 · Nov 9, 2015

DougM said:
Personally not in love with Cetol, mostly because of its color and translucency. It does emphasize on the can not to thin it. One thing that really helps in the application process is to use really high quality brushes. Cheap brushes don't help the flow characteristics .

Varnish lasts 'no time at all' in sunny, hot south Texas. So Cetol is great. Goes on easily and lasts most of a year. My problem is waiting for a day that is cool enough to apply.

Chris & Lenore · Nov 9, 2015

I haven't tried this on exterior wood - but it's the only way I'll apply finish inside the boat.
No more brush marks, sags, "imbedded crap", etc. Takes twice the coats but they dry in half the time.
Love this method of application...
Product wise, I have used Epifanes as well as several other urethanes - all seemed to hold up equally well used inside.

njlarry · Nov 9, 2015

I did not have any luck with 4 coats Helmsman varnish on our teak cockpit table. It was covered between sails but failed before the end of the season. Had the table and drink holder stripped and applied 3 or 4 coats Cetal natural. The first night it was on the boat i left it uncovered and rained in the morning and in hours the Cetal failed where the water collected in the corners of the drink holder. It was super easy to touch up. The table which gets heavy use but is covered when we are off the boat looked great at the end of the season.
Will give it two more coats in the spring. Might try Cetal gloss but fear that it might be harder to maintain.

bigpapaporsche · Nov 9, 2015

I've used Cetol for several years with reasonable success on Teak trim. However, I don't really like the look. I compare it to a 100% cotton shirt vs one made of a polyester blend. There no question 100% cotton is more comfortable, but you have to have them pressed. For me, I want the best quality looking finish I can get! On a Cockpit Table that very important. You have to admit that a Cetol finish looks a little plastic. The big problem is that Varnish is not recommended on Teak, that where Cetol comes in. If the Table was made of Mahogany or any other wood that isn't oily, I would use Varnish and enjoy the richer look and have it covered when not in use.

CloudDiver · Nov 10, 2015

I'm not a fan of Cetol, I prefer Epiphanes varnish, but I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of finish I can get with Cetol. Its not the brush that gets results for me, its the in-between coats prep I do. I can get away with chip brushes or foam brushes and still get great results. In between coats I used a Red (medium) scotch brite pad, this removes any dust or other imperfections and helps level it. I haven't seen the best UV resistance from Cetol, but then again the degraded Cetol jobs I've seen were not my jobs or on any of my boats, so I have no idea how many coats it was. I can see the appeal of Cetol for its price, ease of use, and ease of application for the long-term cruiser who needs to do brightwork maintenance at sea or in port. Otherwise, when I have the time and protection of an enclosed shop, I coat with epoxy and finish with Epiphanes. Also, I think someone mentioned the difficulty of applying Cetol (or varnish or both) in the hot Florida sun... Painting or varnishing in direct sunlight will screw up any job, with pretty much any product/substrate. When possible paint or varnish in-doors or in the shade. If its unavoidable to varnish in the sun, hope for cooler temps and try to use your body to block the sun as you apply. Tarps can help create some shaded areas where you are working.
For those mentioning Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane, I don't think it has the best UV protection qualities. I used on the wooden body of my Hot-Tub and it didn't last very long, maybe I should have tried more than 3 coats.

Brian S · Nov 10, 2015

In my experience, 3 coats of cetol applied with a foam brush (what I had on hand) didn't last 2 full seasons in SE PA (which isn't terrible from a UV standpoint like Texas or FL.) It's currently flaking off, and I'm letting it, for easier clean up in spring when I will go to the trouble of properly varnishing. As for varnish, I really like the application of Le Tonkinois Nr. 1, which is pretty much oil and resin, without any solvents. I have found, using both Epifanes and Pettit marine varnishes, that it is much harder to maintain a wet edge with varnish that has solvents. So, I like the ease of application of Le Tonks, and it seems to hold up pretty well after 2 seasons now.

As for NJLarry, I gotta say that 4 coats of varnish isn't enough for anything. 8-10 coats is about how much I usually apply, and it starts looking good then. Others feel 8-10 is a good base coat... I find that about coat 8, I start to lose my mind, and get one or two more coats on, depending on how much dust or drips contaminate coat 8. Ha, basically, by coat 8 I'm all "This is the LAST ONE!" and then I come back the next day, and see a dry spot, drip, or clod of dust, and then I'm like: "Coat 9 is the LAST ONE!"

Gunni · Nov 10, 2015

If your cetol is peeling off in two seasons you don't have a UV problem, you have a freeze/thaw problem and unsealed wood wicking moisture into the work. That pops the skinned gloss off.

BigEasy · Nov 10, 2015

Have to agree with Gunni. If your Cetol is peeling off after two seasons it has to be a freeze/ thaw problem, a preparation/application problem, or perhaps wood that has too much moisture or oil. My Cetol coating is holding up well, with a nice glossy finish, after two years in South Louisiana Sun, heat, and humidity. Will likely reapply a coat or two this spring after lightly sanding. I don't want to let it deteriorate to the extent that I have to strip it off.

philwsailz · Nov 10, 2015

I have a cedar bar that spent the first 8 years of its life out in the elements. It's original Cetol finish is intact and looking good.

When someone says they are having issues with Cetol flaking off I am inclined to point to surface prep.

For teak, you need to get the oils away from the surface in order to get your first coat down in the wood. The wood's natural oils will prevent this.

I will always do an acetone wipe down, scrubbing the wood and changing rags often until I am getting no more "color" out of the wood onto the rags. This is my indicator that the oil is gone. Temporarily. Left alone, the remaining oils down in the wood WILL migrate back up to the surface.

VERY quickly after your wipe down, (as in only minutes or seconds) quickly apply your first coat. You want the finish to soak into the wood rather than lying on top.

Cetol has come a long way. You don't have to settle for the old translucent look any more. Here is the bar with the older formula:

The service I have gotten from this now 15-year-old finish work tells me Cetol is indeed a good product.

Stu Jackson · Nov 10, 2015

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7505.msg55622.html#msg55622

Chris & Lenore · Nov 11, 2015

philwsailz said:
I have a cedar bar that spent the first 8 years of its life out in the elements. It's original Cetol finish is intact and looking good.

When someone says they are having issues with Cetol flaking off I am inclined to point to surface prep.

For teak, you need to get the oils away from the surface in order to get your first coat down in the wood. The wood's natural oils will prevent this.

I will always do an acetone wipe down, scrubbing the wood and changing rags often until I am getting no more "color" out of the wood onto the rags. This is my indicator that the oil is gone. Temporarily. Left alone, the remaining oils down in the wood WILL migrate back up to the surface.

VERY quickly after your wipe down, (as in only minutes or seconds) quickly apply your first coat. You want the finish to soak into the wood rather than lying on top.

Cetol has come a long way. You don't have to settle for the old translucent look any more. Here is the bar with the older formula:View attachment 116981

The service I have gotten from this now 15-year-old finish work tells me Cetol is indeed a good product.

You nailed it - removing surface oils. Two woodworkers told me that if not prepped properly (as in the quote above) expect any product to flake off - unless the wood is old and most of its oils gone.

Chris