My boat sank today

[dhays]

Wow, sorry about your lost boat.

As others have mentioned, please keep us informed as to the eventual findings from the insurance investigation.

Maine Sail lists all the possible causes I can think of and anothe poster mentioned a purposeful scuttling. I find it strange that 3 boats have sunk in that short a time frame in that one morning field. We have few morning fields here, but in all my years around the docks I have only had personal knowledge of one boat that came close to sinking and a quick call to vessel assist got pumps to the boat long before it was critical.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't it take a long time for a boat to sink short of a catastrophic failure such as a large drain hose failure below waterline? Even in that case, the bilge pump would have been valiantly trying to keep the boat afloat for a while and I would think that other boaters would have noticed either a boat riding low in the water or one that has a continuos flow of water from its bilge pump?

 

[njlarry]

According to a table in Calder from a Navy Salvors Handbook a 1.5" hole 3 feet underwater lets in 77 gpm, more as she sets lower. (That's almost 5000 gal or 37,000 lbs per hour!)Not many 12v pumps can keep up with that for long. My bilge pump is for rainwater. I don't trust it for a real leak.
This post has reminded me to always close every thru hull when away and I need to replace my sink drain hose which I should have done with the new seacock this past spring.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

There is nothing wrong with a bronze flanged adaptor and ball valve.

The operative phrase being "...and ball valve" ...which is what seemed to be missing when I raised the question.

Thanks for the illustrations. I've saved it for my files.

 

[jibes138]

Sorry about your loss.:cry:

Do not buy the boat back from the insurance company, you will NEVER get the core dry..

The options for sinking are really only a few:

#1 You were hit by lightning

#2 Seacock or hose failure (leaving a seacock open is part of "failure")

#3 Rudder packing gland (if gland below static water)

#4 Your boat got hit by another boat

#5 No high vented loop in bilge hose and it somehow dipped below water and back siphoned.

#6 Shaft seal failure.

I'd add a couple more, Speed transducers are sealed by a couple o-seals and if those fail you have a major underwater leak similar to a through hull or hose leak. If a depth transducer sealant failed you could also have a leak. The latter would likely be slow, but a slow leak for a long time will sink a boat. Where is the marina to be in 50 feet of water? Those are some really long pilings or a really deep mooring.
I sailed out of Muskegan once 40 years ago and remember concerns about shallow water.

 

[quadrille38]

Some years ago I was out sailing with a co worker who kept his boat at the Yacht Club there. When we came in from sailing we were perplexed to see a couple,of people rowing around the mooring field with a flashlight looking down in the water.

A day or two,later we heard the rest of the story. The guys in the boat rowing around had come out for a sail only to find the boat missing. At first they thought it had been stolen. Then the figured out it had sunk. They were out with the flashlight because they were looking down in the water and could just see the top of the mast a foot or two below the surface. It seems a big storm had come through. Lots of lightening. When the raised the boat they found pin holes in the hull all the way around the water line. Seems the lightening had blown thousands of these pin holes and during the night the boat just quietly and slowly filled with water and sank.

 

[Siamese]

We all feel for you. What a rotten thing.

I keep my boat in Muskegon's Harbour Towne, so of course, I'm familiar with your mooring field and Torresen's. It's remarkably lucky for you that Torresen's saw your boat was missing. They could easily have not noticed it.

Giving me the chills thinking of your boat out there on the bottom. Best of luck to you.

 

[Windtherapy]

We are at blufton moorings in front of torresen marina....apprently ours is the third boat in three years to sink in the mooring field

Seriously, if you need any help let me know. I'm only a little over 2 hours away.

 

[KD3PC]

I And I DO want to know what failed!

Mine sunk when a 1/2" diameter bolt that attached the keel (one of several) - completely dissolved, allowing a 1/2" path from outside to the bilge. About 4 inches long. You could see the water shooting up as they pumped her down. They plugged the hole with dowel, towed her to a slip, and by morning she was on the bottom, again. The pressure from the water apparently pushed the dowel out.

Lesson....get her in to a sling, until you KNOW what the fault was and it has been adequately repaired. Not simply "patched" for the moment.

 

[MitchM]

some thoughts:
1) put a bilge pump counter onto your main pump. that way, if your pump runs when you're away , you'll know and can investigate what causes it. we had for example, we had a small weep out of the seawater intake line into the head ( possibly caused by improper winterizing . ) the hose had a tiny hole right where it attached to the intake seacock ( which we ALWAYS closed on leaving the boat, along with all the other seacocks.) when we were on the boat, the bilge pump counter told us the pump was running a lot. we finally isolated it to the seawater intake hose on the head having a very small crack near the seacock.

2) put some home 'water detectors' in likely leak spots (like: under the hot water tank, under the sink spigots, under the head manual pump. etc.) the advantage of these little AA battery powered $10 units is that they alert you with a very annoying unique noise to any slow drip. it may take a while for such a small drip to fill the bilge enough to turn on your pump.
as to your insurance claim, be sure to provide a copy of the survey and all repair bills for things done under your ownership. we once had a 'professional' yard install an extra seacock for a marine air conditioner . they would not let me do the work in 'their' travelift so insisted that their 'mechanic' do the work. the yard 'mechanic' did not allow the epoxy to cure before splashing the boat ( the yard wanted the travelift for someone else.) i insisted on being there when the splashed the boat. it was fortunate that i was, because within a minute of splash, the crappy seacock install they had done started leaking. we insisted that they haul the boat ASAP. had i not caught it that boat may well have been totally underwater.

 

[stiggy456]

So the boats out of the water....and the newly repaired rudder is missing. The rudder was dropped out and repaired in june of this year prior to launching. The invetigator/surveyor for the insurance company says that the rudder was only held in by a single press fitted pin. So the thoery right nkw is that the pin worked its way out some how and then the rudder dropped out of the boat. S2 9.2's were not designed with a fiberglass tube that went above the water line that would have prevented the sinking. In the event that the rudder was removed. We are currently waiting for torresen marina to give the insurance company a repair cost quote, once the quote is recieved they will decide what they are going to do. Im going to try and post some pictures of the boat, as it was when it was recovered...also a friend of mine has started a go fund me page for my wife and i will post the link below

 

[kloudie1]

Diver should be able to find the rudder pretty quickly..
You can probably install a tube on the rudder shaft ..
Tiller steered? Not familiar with S2 rudder stuff, but it seems like a through bolt would be more appropriate than a pressed pin in that location. on wheel steered boats, the quadrant would be through bolted ..
Sorry to hear of the loss.. Repair shop should be liable to at least help with repairs..

 

[woodster]

So the boats out of the water....and the newly repaired rudder is missing. The rudder was dropped out and repaired in june of this year prior to launching. The invetigator/surveyor for the insurance company says that the rudder was only held in by a single press fitted pin. So the thoery right nkw is that the pin worked its way out some how and then the rudder dropped out of the boat. S2 9.2's were not designed with a fiberglass tube that went above the water line that would have prevented the sinking. In the event that the rudder was removed. We are currently waiting for torresen marina to give the insurance company a repair cost quote, once the quote is recieved they will decide what they are going to do. Im going to try and post some pictures of the boat, as it was when it was recovered...also a friend of mine has started a go fund me page for my wife and i will post the link below

www.gofundme.com/8e63rmp4?pc=fb_cr_g.

my rudder has a bronze tiller arm that has a set screw in it that seats in a drilled dimple and key and keyway and is safety wired so it can not back out ...along with that the steering quadrant has 4 3/8 bolts that clamp the two halves together with a key and keyway i find it hard to have only a press pin being all that is holding the rudder in ....i think something was not done correctly/ or left off in the repair job....liability in my mind is for the repair people ....you may need to get a second opinion after all is said and done ...who provided the surveyor ? the repair yard i hope not you need and unbiased source here ....keep us posted to the findings and outcome plz...one other thing do you have tiller steering or wheel

 

[Maine Sail]

So the boats out of the water....and the newly repaired rudder is missing. The rudder was dropped out and repaired in june of this year prior to launching. The invetigator/surveyor for the insurance company says that the rudder was only held in by a single press fitted pin. So the thoery right nkw is that the pin worked its way out some how and then the rudder dropped out of the boat. S2 9.2's were not designed with a fiberglass tube that went above the water line that would have prevented the sinking. In the event that the rudder was removed.

Sorry to hear that. I would expect your insurer to go after the repair facilities insurance. The rudder should not have fallen out..

We are currently waiting for torresen marina to give the insurance company a repair cost quote.

I don't know how to be any clearer but please, please, please DO NOT repair this boat. It is totaled and the deck repairs alone (every bit of core removed and replaced) will far exceed the value of the vessel and we've not even replaced 100% of the electrical system.. Take the insurance money and find a new boat.. Anyone who tells you that a boat that sunk, like yours, is repairable for the insured value is feeding you a pile of bovine dung...

 

[Mark Maulden]

Maine, what if an insurance settlement is reached and paid out and the boat is bought back real cheap? The owner would stick it in the driveway and perform all refurbishment him/her self over some amount of time. Time is worth nothing dollar wise. It wasnt under that long. If its like my S2, the hull is solid and the decks only are cored. There cant be that much to rewiring this boat. Interior, obviously, needs addressing. Used engines are available. Etc etc

 

[Siamese]

As much as I'd like the owner to experience a happy ending, I would encourage him to heed Main Sail's advice.

I found it remarkable that the deck core could be saturated to the point that it will never dry out after a relatively short time in the water. But coming from MaineSail I would give it serious consideration. His advice and knowledge has saved me a lot of money on my boat. He has a habit of knowing what he's talking about.

Also brought up by MaineSail is the fact that whoever performed the rudder repair in June may have some responsibility. Too bad for whoever did it, but good for the owner if the sinking can be traced to the rudder repair, as it would not be his fault and the claim would be paid.

If the same entity that did the possibly faulty rudder repair also prepares the quote for the restoration of the boat, I can see the possibility of conflict of interest. Ignore the wet core, repair the rest inexpensively, and avoid being the target of the insurance company. There are two entities here whose interests are not the same as the boat owner's.

For the sake of discussion, what if the entity that did a faulty rudder repair also gets paid for the boat's restoration?! Sorry...a lot of hypotheticals here.

Time is worth nothing dollar wise? That may be true for some, but not for me. I would say my time is among the more valuable things I possess. If it was my boat, and MaineSail is right, I'd move on. I like sailing them, and maintaining them, but I'll pass on that level of restoration, as would probably most others.

This is an unfortunate and complex case. It will be interesting to know how it unfolds.

 

[JamesG161]

Take the insurance money and find a new boat

Just think a bit!
Your hull number will be registered as being sunk in "boat reports".

Would you buy a boat that had been sunk?

I saw several redone from Katrina, rebuilt with TLC, and of course offered at a deep discount. If it is your hobby to rebuild... great... but don't count on the resale value.

Today's web based report are easily followed.
Jim...
PS: You can feel a bit better that it was nothing you did wrong to sink it.

 

[El HOMBRE]

just got through with Boat US.They declined my claim twice but after sending numerous letters and pictures plus telling them i would take them to court,they relented.Good luck and don't give up.

 

[25yearslater]

I don't know how to be any clearer but please, please, please DO NOT repair this boat. It is totaled and the deck repairs alone (every bit of core removed and replaced) will far exceed the value of the vessel and we've not even replaced 100% of the electrical system.. Take the insurance money and find a new boat.. Anyone who tells you that a boat that sunk, like yours, is repairable for the insured value is feeding you a pile of bovine dung...

As some folks know I'm not one to back away from a challenge but take Mainsail's advise. Not only will the deck core be soaked but the cabin top, settees, cockpit floor and cabin sole cores are highly suspect. Even I wouldn't consider this as a viable restoration project. Couple that with the electrical, and engine issues including every electronic gadget you have and I would hazard a guess the total loss value will be far less than the ultimate restoration cost. After that consider how long it will take to fully restore and you could be without a boat for years. Good luck and sorry for your loss.

 

[woodster]

having just finished my refit i can tell you that it will be a lot more for you to even think about keeping that boat and redoing it ...i have 6 years of my time and efforts in the project...on a shoestring budget ....i gutted the boat all except the forward bulkheads to the v berth and the bulkhead to the storage cabinet on the starboard side ...even the bulkhead under the companionway...and my boat had only 12 inches of water above the cabin sole......the decks were sound and core was good.....and from there i put it all back together one piece at a time...the boat is virtually new now ...everything was replaced...inside and out ...excluding the hard parts above the deck..mast,boom,fore and aft rails ...etc.....even the galley countertops and the head ...if i had to start another one it will not be anything but a 8 ft wooden dinghy...i have enjoyed every minute doing this but there is only me to keep happy in my life this day and time so that helped with keeping it going ...and looking back if i had not found this site to feed off of ... i may have made a lot of mistakes in the process......the point i am trying to make here is mainesail and others are telling you the best advice you will ever get ...don't let the ins co and the yard say other wise....get another boat....i hate you have to go through this...and that it's a nice boat that you have and may be hard to duplicate ...but there are other boats out there that will do you just fine......start looking now.....and don't look back....good luck......

 

[JamesG161]

just got through with Boat US.They declined my claim twice but after sending numerous letters and pictures plus telling them i would take them to court,they relented.Good luck and don't give up.

In my state, when the Insurance denies a claim, the roles reverse and you become the defendant and the Insurance company the Plaintiff. Which means they must prove in court why the claim was denied.

This is why Insurance Companies get a bad name...

They pay (plus percentage) an adjuster to save as much money as they can.

You can ask for a different adjuster.
Jim...