Adapt, improvise, overcome.

shemandr · Sep 20, 2015

It's laminated, until it isn't.

Kingjim91 · Sep 20, 2015

Roadking Larry said:
Local club races yesterday, great day for racing on our lake, winds running 12-14kts and unusually constant for us. We were doing pretty well all things considered. We just made the turn were making the run for the line at the end of the first race when I leaned a little too hard on my tiller when the boat heeled up and **CRACK**. The tiller split about 1/3 of its length. http://s23.photobucket.com/user/FLHRI-OK/media/tiller split-1847.jpg.html We crossed the line and cleared the course, dropped the jib and went into damage control mode Wire ties and para-cord saved the day. http://s23.photobucket.com/user/FLHRI-OK/media/tiller patch-1845.jpg.html I'm going to try to repair this one but I think I'll be shopping for a new stick,

Very ingenious.

I repaired a tiller by squeezing some Gorilla glue in the split, and clamping together with a couple of SS thru-bolts. It will never crack in that area again.

Gunni · Sep 20, 2015

Adapt, Improvise, Overcome - indeed! Para-cord is an essential repair item. You can always mix up a pot of epoxy and paint it on! Well done sailor!

njlarry · Sep 21, 2015

Wire ties. ...the other duck tape. Love them.

pateco · Sep 21, 2015

Always keep a fresh bag of CT-15B UV Rated Cable ties, and a spool of Para-cord onboard with the Duct Tape. There is a bag of ties in the tool kit in each of my cars as well.

Jackdaw · Sep 21, 2015

By design, para-cord is very elastic; it's designed to stretch and absorb shock of the canopy opening. Not a great choice on a sailboat where in 95% of the potential use-cases, less stretch is best. A much better utility line is a 20 or so feet of thin dyneema. Almost zero stretch, and a few loops of it will lift the boat. Just learn good knots for it.

In my pockets at all times, my sailing knife with fid, a roll of e-tape, and a length of dyneema. I can fix and jury-rig almost anything with that kit.

west wind · Sep 21, 2015

Kingjim91 said:
Very ingenious.

I repaired a tiller by squeezing some Gorilla glue in the split, and clamping together with a couple of SS thru-bolts. It will never crack in that area again.

I concur, added the SS bolts to my new tiller, the perfect fit.

edcarter517 · Sep 21, 2015

No, for this application stretch is good. When the cord is wrapped around the tiller and pulled tight on each turn it stretches a lot. With any small change the load changes due to the low spring rate of the cord, but is still tight - just a little bit less tight. When a low stretch cord is used and is stretched to the same tightness, the same small change will cause the load decrease much more. What you want to avoid is cord that relaxes with time under load.

Salt Water Cowboy · Sep 21, 2015

Glue it, drill it, and insert a recessed blind nut in the bottom, then use a hex head recessed bolt from top down. don't use phillips or blade screws, they will strip. THe bolt is recessed smooth/flush across the surface and the nut is the same on the bottom. Looks like new

Jackdaw · Sep 21, 2015

edcarter517 said:
No, for this application stretch is good. When the cord is wrapped around the tiller and pulled tight on each turn it stretches a lot. With any small change the load changes due to the low spring rate of the cord, but is still tight - just a little bit less tight. When a low stretch cord is used and is stretched to the same tightness, the same small change will cause the load decrease much more. What you want to avoid is cord that relaxes with time under load.

Interesting thought process, but I'm not sure I agree! ;^)

If the goal is to hold the broken tiller together as tight as possible, I can't see why you would use a line that is going to stretch? Even if you pull it tight, it's still going to stretch more when the load comes on. You can't pretension it enough. Line stretches linearly to its breaking point.

I can see cases where if the goal was to be tight and there was going to be little or no additional load on the part that a line that you could pretension by stretching some would be an advantage. To me that's not the case here.

But at the end of the day, there is probably no right or wrong answer; only thing that is important is the resourcefulness to fix the problem enough to get you home!

agprice22 · Sep 21, 2015

The thing that struck me is we tiller-steer sailors don't often have emergency tillers! I am converting my 272 to wheel steer for next season, and I will keep my tiller and rudder head for emergencies, but I never had a backup for my tiller! I suppose I could drill and bolt a paddle to the stub pretty quickly!

Thanks,
Andrew

seanmcgrath · Sep 21, 2015

agprice22 said:
The thing that struck me is we tiller-steer sailors don't often have emergency tillers! I am converting my 272 to wheel steer for next season, and I will keep my tiller and rudder head for emergencies, but I never had a backup for my tiller! I suppose I could drill and bolt a paddle to the stub pretty quickly! Thanks, Andrew

Andrew,
I'm curious here as a newbie, and my apologies if I'm hijacking he thread here: why would you convert from tiller to wheel on a 27? What are the benefits?
Thanks,
Sean

agprice22 · Sep 21, 2015

seanmcgrath said:
Andrew, I'm curious here as a newbie, and my apologies if I'm hijacking he thread here: why would you convert from tiller to wheel on a 27? What are the benefits? Thanks, Sean

For me, they are the removal of a swinging tiller in the cockpit, the removal of the tiller clutch lines, the opportunity to work on my boat

, making the boat easier for my wife to handle, and a place to add some accessories and a cockpit table.

I lucked out by finding a new, in-box, RLA steering system with pedestal and wheel for the 272 for a fraction of today's prices. I have spoken to several slip-mates who have them, and they like them very much, so I bought it.

My wife will steer a little bit, but she gets overwhelmed by the tiller. I know I should get her to sail our Catalina 14.2, so she really learns to sail, but she is getting better every season, and seasons here are short, and the water is cold. The tiller seems to be a hurdle for her. Traveler, mainsheet, genoa sheets, halyards, lazy jacks, topping lift... dock lines, boat hook... She has them all in her pocket. I bought her a little Wahoo 16 powerboat this season, and she loves it, so she is coming a long way from never having been on a boat before she met me 10 years ago! She rocks that Wahoo, towing me on a wakeboard!

Tillers are generally more responsive, but I look forward to experiencing a wheel. I just couldn't see putting a wheel on my C22! I wanted a wheel when we moved up, but this 272 was a great buy, so I bought it. Not settling by any means. The tiller is great, but I want to try the wheel.

If anyone else chimes in, maybe the moderator will move this to a new thread.

Thanks,

Andrew

Daveinet · Sep 21, 2015

Gorilla glue it is not bad, however it is not remotely close to the performance of Titebond when gluing wood. If you had the normal drying type, you could have squirted it in the space, clamped it together hard, and ten seconds later it would be stronger than the wood its self, assuming the wood split, and the old glue did not prevent the Titebond from squeezing into the wood. Once you clamp Titebond, you are done. It will never come apart, ever.

Knowing it split with only a small amount of stress, I think I would be inclined to split it the rest of the way. That way you can really sand the old clue out. Getting the new glue to work requires the new glue to be pressure squeezed into the wood pores. If it is good and clean, I would see no need to replace it. That also assumes the wood is not rotted where the bolt holes go through.

As far a clamping, if you need to clamp to a small curved surface, we use packaging wrap. Several wraps of cellophane packaging wrap will pull it tight and as long as it is not too wide, will conform to any shape you need and provides continuous clamping force over the whole curve.

3rd generation woodworker.

BTW: I prefer a tiller, as it is easier to see/feel weather helm. I think it is also easier to tell what you are doing when docking, particularly when backing up.

JamesG161 · Sep 21, 2015

Gorilla glue it is not bad, however it is not remotely close to the performance of Titebond when gluing wood. If you had the normal drying type, you could have squirted it in the space, clamped it together hard, and ten seconds later it would be stronger than the wood its self, assuming the wood split, and the old glue did not prevent the Titebond from squeezing into the wood. Once you clamp Titebond, you are done. It will never come apart, ever.

I build curved staircase and rails and laminated beams as part of my work too.

Right on target Daveinet:dance:

The key is enough time after bonding with, bunches of clamps, to cure. Clean the excess glue off after the clamp squeeze.
Jim...

capta · Sep 21, 2015

I've used hose clamps several times for this sort of repair. If it's too large for one clamp, you can put as many together as necessary to do the job. Add a bit of Weldwood (spar making glue) and in a few days you have a permanent fix.

PeterBld · Sep 21, 2015

You can see that the mechanics of the tiller design at the stock puts strain at the bolts. Also for the laminate to split like that indicates the glue used is inferior. A typical 2 pot resin glue would not do this, more likely damage the wood than just release.
Couple of suggestions.
1/- carry the split the whole length. Grind both surfaces back to raw wood. Mix up some 2 pot resin and glue poser. Cover both surfaces. Clamp well th entire length so the glue oozes out.
2/- improve the mechanical disadvantage by making two stainless steel checks to attach from the three stock bolts plus a further bolt through the tiller. This will spread the load and make much stronger.
Pete

Gunni · Sep 21, 2015

I don't think Titebond glue is rated for marine use. I know they have some new formulations but epoxy would be the choice for a tiller handle that gets constant exposure, and provides critical function. Even resourcinol would be preferred, but the bond is less elastic than the better epoxies.

Adapt, improvise, overcome.

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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