Batteries - More Questions

[KZW]

I’ve read a lot of posts regarding battery replacement. I’m very grateful for the advice and experience of others who’ve done this. However I have a few questions as I must replace one of the two 4D batteries in Amazing Grace. I checked the water lever on 1 Aug and less than two weeks later four of the six chambers on bank #1 were empty. It is a very unhappy battery - deader than Marley's ghost. Yes, I have the OEM 20 Amp charger.

Form other posts, the battery of choice is Duracell GC2 battery from Sam’s. Maine Sail, bless him, has posted on battery ratings for several years. The GC2 is rated 215 Ah (20 Amp). I’m unable to obtain the 230 Ah eCG2 from the local Sam’s. A deep cycle 4D battery is available from Defender, but besides being monstrously heavy, it has a lower Ah rating and is $100 more than two GC2 batteries. Two CG2 must be wired in series to get 12VDC. It would seem a bank of two GC2 in series would be more than enough to start the M25 engine.

Keep in mind I only cruise for maybe three or four days at a time, and then only once or twice a year. I run the A/C in the summer so the charger is always plugged into dock power and is always on.

Questions:

- Do I need to replace my good 4D battery, just two years old (installed by the PO) or can I run the pair of GC2 batteries in a separate bank?

- With one 4D in one bank and a pair of GC2 in the another bank, is it prudent to keep the battery selector switch in either bank 1 or bank 2 and not on both?

- Should I bite the bullet and pull the good 4D battery? If so, two banks of two GC2 in series or a single bank of series/parallel for a single 460 Ah bank. Smitty did this and added a starting battery, but I have not a clue how he wedged them all into the battery compartment. I studied the picture in his blog for some time, measured my battery compartment, and still don't see how he did it

- Should the battery plates run bow-stern, or parallel to the beam?

- Golf Cart deep discharge batteries like to be slow charged. However, the OEM alternator on the M25 is rated at 50 Amps. This seems like a lot. Is it going to ruin the new batteries?

- What size wire do I need to make up the leads for the wiring. Any recommendations on sources for wire, leads, and heat shrink will be most appreciated. I've looked at Defender and West Marine.

 

[rpwillia]

My $0.02

I’ve read a lot of posts regarding battery replacement. I’m very grateful for the advice and experience of others who’ve done this. However I have a few questions as I must replace one of the two 4D batteries in Amazing Grace. I checked the water lever on 1 Aug and less than two weeks later four of the six chambers on bank #1 were empty. It is a very unhappy battery - deader than Marley's ghost. Yes, I have the OEM 20 Amp charger.

Form other posts, the battery of choice is Duracell GC2 battery from Sam’s. Maine Sail, bless him, has posted on battery ratings for several years. The GC2 is rated 215 Ah (20 Amp). I’m unable to obtain the 230 Ah eCG2 from the local Sam’s. A deep cycle 4D battery is available from Defender, but besides being monstrously heavy, it has a lower Ah rating and is $100 more than two GC2 batteries. Two CG2 must be wired in series to get 12VDC. It would seem a bank of two GC2 in series would be more than enough to start the M25 engine.

Keep in mind I only cruise for maybe three or four days at a time, and then only once or twice a year. I run the A/C in the summer so the charger is always plugged into dock power and is always on.

Questions:

- Do I need to replace my good 4D battery, just two years old (installed by the PO) or can I run the pair of GC2 batteries in a separate bank?

- With one 4D in one bank and a pair of GC2 in the another bank, is it prudent to keep the battery selector switch in either bank 1 or bank 2 and not on both?

- Should I bite the bullet and pull the good 4D battery? If so, two banks of two GC2 in series or a single bank of series/parallel for a single 460 Ah bank. Smitty did this and added a starting battery, but I have not a clue how he wedged them all into the battery compartment. I studied the picture in his blog for some time, measured my battery compartment, and still don't see how he did it

- Should the battery plates run bow-stern, or parallel to the beam?

- Golf Cart deep discharge batteries like to be slow charged. However, the OEM alternator on the M25 is rated at 50 Amps. This seems like a lot. Is it going to ruin the new batteries?

- What size wire do I need to make up the leads for the wiring. Any recommendations on sources for wire, leads, and heat shrink will be most appreciated. I've looked at Defender and West Marine.

I have the GC2 batteries and when I did the cost/benefit analysis did not find the eGC2 batteries were worth the extra money.

I think you could keep the 4D as long as you don't mix/connect them to the GC2's as a single battery. Since you are essentially using two different types of batteries I would keep the switch on 1 or 2 and NOT all. I have 4 GC2's installed and just run them as one bank as they are all the same.

I would not worry about the alternator. I have the 50 amp Mando oem and it is fine to charge the deep cycle.

They say the batteries should be run port-starboard, but mine came from the factory fwd-aft and I installed the GC2's the same way. They fit in there fine, and I keep the fluid topped off. The theory, as I understand it, that port-starboard helps keep the plates covered when you are heeling. In 9 years I have not had a battery failure and have experienced 5 years on average of battery life.

I was able to re-use the factory wiring, but required jumpers to convert the GC2's into 2 12vdc batteries. I made up the jumpers at West Marine as they had everything there and I got instant gratification. With the connectors and wire, which I believe was 0 or 2 gauge, it cost about $40.00. To be honest I took one of the cables to WM and matches it up as I had no idea what it was. They even let me use their crimper and cutters to make up my cables while I was there. I am very happy with the GC2's as I can go up to 3 days without having to worry about battery charge.

 

[Stu Jackson]

- Golf Cart deep discharge batteries like to be slow charged. However, the OEM alternator on the M25 is rated at 50 Amps. This seems like a lot. Is it going to ruin the new batteries?

Ray's advice is good. With the new & old batteries you'll be running what's called a "dual house bank" system - either or but not both. It'll work, since that's what most boats came from the factory with, right? It's old time old school and research has shown that the larger a house bank, with the same amount of lead, the longer they will live. However, given your description of how you intend to use the boat, that'd be just fine.

The OEM alternator is 50A, but unless a bank is severely discharged, most alternators will be "required" to output only part of their full rating. Indeed, when you're off the grid, you want as MUCH charge to get back in in as short a time. Don't sweat it, not an issue.

 

[paulj]

After 10 years, the West Marine 4D batteries gave out with out a sign of

withering.


Just finished this evening installing new batteries.

All Sams Club had was Energizer GC2 no more Duracell GC2.


I went to Costco and bought 4 Interstate GC2 batteries....each 6 volt @ 207

amps.

The price was $89 a piece.


House bank now 417 amps.

Purchased a new 12 volt Interstate marine deep cycle for Start battery.

As I limped home after trip with no house batteries my start battery was

withering..........no need to do that again.


Here is my installation......


paulj

 

[KZW]

Thanks for all the answers. Very good information. I will be busy for the next few weekends.

 

[Long Story]

Paul,

Do you have a photo or two of what your battery box - tray looked like before you but the batteries in? Nice the way everything is tucked in hoped for some detail on how you accomplished it.

Thanks in advance

Russ
s/v Long Story

 

[Stu Jackson]

Russ, it sure looks to me like Paul "trimmed" back the edges of the settee supports.

 

[rpwillia]

I did no trimming

Russ, it sure looks to me like Paul "trimmed" back the edges of the settee supports.

I got them all to fit in with no problem, but rumor has it I have a talent for that.

I woulda gone with the Energizer as they are Deka/East Penn made and better quality than the Interstate. My source for that was Maine Sail and if he said it I believed it and that settles it. Only thing better than the Deka/East Penn is Rolls Royce or Trojan. :naughty:

 

[Long Story]

Interesting question - only because I got Dinged by the Coast Guard in July for this... where are your terminal post covers? I had to add rubber covers to all post's positive and negative and show compliance to avoid a fine.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Battery post covers

...only because I got Dinged by the Coast Guard in July for this... where are your terminal post covers? I had to add rubber covers to all post's positive and negative and show compliance to avoid a fine.

Odd. There was a discussion about this either here or on another forum. IIRC, if in a dedicated battery compartment, it just ain't so.

I apologize, I usually have links. I don't in this case.

Anybody?

 

[Charles Erwin]

33 CFR 183.401 makes electrical rules applicable to recreational vessels if gasoline powered or if gas generator is aboard. So these Rules do not apply to outboard or diesel.

I cannot imagine why one would not follow them anyway no matter whether you are gasoline or not.

Need only protect the ungrounded (positive post) from short out so enclosed case works. 33 CFR 183.420

See generally 33 CFR 183.401 and those sections following. (Just Google same)

Charles

 

[paulj]

Paul,

Do you have a photo or two of what your battery box - tray looked like before you but the batteries in? Nice the way everything is tucked in hoped for some detail on how you accomplished it.

Thanks in advance

Russ
s/v Long Story

No



paulj :troll:

 

[KZW]

The other Interstate 4D just died. They were purchased in 2012 and 2013, respectively. They should have lasted much longer. I suspect the OEM 20 Amp charger. It is going to be replaced.

Ordered 4 x Duracell GC2 batteries from Sam's. Now I need the wires to put two each in series.

Does anyone know of a source for a battery box that fits?

 

[rpwillia]

I am confused

... Does anyone know of a source for a battery box that fits?

Not sure why you need a new battery box. The golf carts just fit fine in my factory box. I had to re-do the hold down as the GC2s were taller so the factory 2x4 would not fit. I would up making a new bracket to hold the batteries in place in the factory position.

 

[KZW]

The GC2 batteries are going in the same place as the 4Ds. I was looking for a tray to put them in should a spill occur.

 

[KZW]

Four CG2 batteries installed. Braces installed; they are not going to move. All wiring hooked up.

Next task is installing the pro-mariner charger. Anyone know how many feet of wire from the OEM charger location to the battery box for the charger temperature sensor?
What gauge wire for that run.

 

[peter_ms]

Four CG2 batteries installed. Braces installed; they are not going to move. All wiring hooked up. Next task is installing the pro-mariner charger. Anyone know how many feet of wire from the OEM charger location to the battery box for the charger temperature sensor? What gauge wire for that run.

Pictures?

 

[2 OLD PIRATES]

Ditto on the pictures. I'm replacing my batteries also this coming spring with 4 Trojan 6 volt 150's. Unfortunately getting the Pro Mariner Charger your intalling is not in the cards. As far as my research goes I can't find it here in Canada :cussing:and with the dollar what it is, I'll try some alternative. Any leads for a charger would be appreciated (here in Canada).

CHEERS
2 OLD PIRATES

PS. What gauge of wire are you using. #10 or #6 ????

 

[peter_ms]

I guess I need to re-orient 2 of my 6V batteries this winter
I did the upgrade before seeing the good/bad orientations. 2 lengthwise and 2 crosswise seemed to work pretty well with a centre fastening point.
Laid the boat on her ear a couple of times with no obvious ill effects (spillage) but I guess I should get with the program...

 

[KZW]

Ditto on the pictures. I'm replacing my batteries also this coming spring with 4 Trojan 6 volt 150's. Unfortunately getting the Pro Mariner Charger your intalling is not in the cards. As far as my research goes I can't find it here in Canada :cussing:and with the dollar what it is, I'll try some alternative. Any leads for a charger would be appreciated (here in Canada).

CHEERS
2 OLD PIRATES

PS. What gauge of wire are you using. #10 or #6 ????

You can get the Pro Mariner from Amazon. It was the least expensive place I found. Free shipping.

The batteries have the cells running beamwise. I don't own a cell phone and have not taken my SLR to the boat lately. Will try in the next couple of days.

The battery leads are 1/0 size. I made the series connectors at West Marine. They have the wire, lugs, heat shrink and the crimper on a table ready to use. I believe the OEM wires from the existing charger are AWG 10. I plan to use those as they are already run. I do need to get a longer heat sensor wire.