Buying new sails, lost in the options.

[Roadking Larry]

I'm getting fairly close to pulling the trigger on a new set of sails for my old Cal 2-27.
I've looked at what I can find on the 'net and searched the forums here but I still don't know what I want to know.
I'm going to drop a pretty good chunk of change for a new main and jib/genoa so I'm trying to educate myself about what is available for materials and what would be a good choice for the sailing I do.
I sail on a medium sized lake where we seldom see winds above 20kts and not storming. I also participate in our club races and have gotten the performance bug, but it isn't a terminal case.

Mostly I'm looking for a source of info that describes the materials available and the pros and cons of each. The online stuff from the various sailmakers is OK but sometimes its hard to sort the hype from the reality.

Obviously I want a sail that will last forever, hold its shape like it's cast from titanium, help me win all the club races and not put me in the poor house and look good doing it.

Any suggestions for my study guide?

 

[woodster]

Obviously I want a sail that will last forever, hold its shape like it's cast from titanium, help me win all the club races and not put me in the poor house and look good doing it.

Any suggestions for my study guide?

if anyone can provide all that in one bundle the rest of the sail makers can close up shop.... as i see it sailing is a hodgepodge of compromises so as they say pick any two ...you just can't have it all its like having two women at the same time it will work maybe the first time out but not after that it will develop in to the biggest rats nest you will ever encounter...good luck on your search

 

[Rich Stidger]

I just bought a set of sails for my Hunter 40.5 from Mack Sails in Stuart, FL. I can't say enough good things about them. They don't outsource, everything is made in the USA.

Their website is full of info about their construction and materials. They were also recommended by my rigger as a top supplier.

If you call, as for Travis and tell him I sent you. I ordered in the fall and they offered a 10% discount without my asking.

http://www.macksails.com/

 

[Jackdaw]

The pro and cons of sailcloth and cuts can be very complex and confusing, in particular when you add all the combinations of laminates. What is best for any one person/boat is based on circumstances, and it's good that you've started to put together a decent list of what is important to you.

The link below is a good start.

I'd talk to several lofts and get suggestions and quotes.

http://www.bainbridgeint.com/PDFdocuments/Y100 - All About Sailcloth.pdf

 

[Roadking Larry]

if anyone can provide all that in one bundle the rest of the sail makers can close up shop.... as i see it sailing is a hodgepodge of compromises so as they say pick any two ...you just can't have it all its like having two women at the same time it will work maybe the first time out but not after that it will develop in to the biggest rats nest you will ever encounter...good luck on your search

I hope my strict criteria wasn't taken as serious
I also forgot to mention the "no maintenance" requirement.

And, Thanks Jackdaw, that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for but I'm also looking for some kind of analysis from an impartial source, someone that isn't trying to sell me their product.

 

[woodster]

I hope my strict criteria wasn't taken as serious
I also forgot to mention the "no maintenance" requirement.

not really but it may help some one down the road

 

[meb135]

I purchased a new set of sails this year. Even though my H33 is a cruising boat, my research pointed me to purchase a set of tri-radial laminate sails. I kid you not, it's like sailing a completely different boat. The overall performance gains and general sailing characteristics are impressive.
You won't regret a new set of sails.

Marc

 

[Jackdaw]

And, Thanks Jackdaw, that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for but I'm also looking for some kind of analysis from an impartial source, someone that isn't trying to sell me their product.

Everyone has something to sell! ;^)

But look at it like this. That guide is from Bainbridge. They are one of the three companies in the world that make sailcloth. The other two are Challenger and DP. With the exception of exotic proprietary materials like North 3DL, ALL sailcloth material comes from one of those three. Each offers (supprise!) a very similar mix of dacrons and mylar-based laminates.

 

[Sanfelice]

I would also recommend the Mack site for good information on sail cloth and design. A good tutorial IMO. The frustrating part of buying sails is that many of the lofts seem to be somewhat cloudy as to what particular cloth is used and site of manufacture. The other site besides Mack that seems to offer more information up front is Judy B sails. For the record I have bought but not Mack.

 

[Roadking Larry]

Everyone has something to sell! ;^)

But look at it like this. That guide is from Bainbridge. They are one of the three companies in the world that make sailcloth. The other two are Challenger and DP. With the exception of exotic proprietary materials like North 3DL, ALL sailcloth material comes from one of those three. Each offers (supprise!) a very similar mix of dacrons and mylar-based laminates.

That I did not know, thanks.

Where does this outfit fit in with the three?

http://www.challengesailcloth.com/

 

[John Nantz]

Sail purchase experience

With regard to the “want” list (good list, by the way), woodster said it: “pick any two (of the three)”. Anyway, …. I’ve been through the racing/performance gambit and now I can say “been there, done that.” I’m outa here. But, I still like performance but not at any price.

When our boat was about three years old we got a North briradial Norlam 150 and it was so fantastic - picked up a 1/2 knot over the UK 110 jib. Just a sweetheart sail. Talk about extra speed - this one was kinda like putting on the afterburner. Also got a spinnaker at the time and this also adds about another 1/2 knot but at a higher “labor and management” cost, greatly offset by the fun and excitement. We also have a Max Prop so that helps with any sail.

The years went by and it was time to replace the main and the 110 so we went with North again. This time, though, considering we’re really out of racing now I opted for a crosscut sail but when they looked at where the sail stood for cloth weight we were not that far from the next heavier cloth so that’s what I did. Yes, the sailboat is heavier, and there is more weight aloft, but the sail shape has held up beautifully and that is very important. It only cost a relatively few dollars more but the longevity of the sail is much greater. It has draft strips sone one can compare the shape when new with what it is now and you can’t tell the difference.

Weight aloft? Not that big of a deal. In light air it doesn’t matter, in heavy air you’re reefed so the CG comes down lower anyhow so I just don’t see where it’s that big of a deal. There are much bigger factors at play than dealing with weight aloft.

As for cloth and loft selection, how the loft contact resonates with you is also important. In my case, the loft and the main person I talked to was great, the guy that measured the rig …. not so. One of the things he missed was the wear patches for the spreaders. When the flattening “reef” is put in the wear patch was just below the spreader. There were a few other details but I can’t remember them all now. He just had a bit of an attitude. Shortly after he left the loft and went into partners with selling boats. They are still in business but haven’t done all that well.

Looking back, if I had to do it over again, I’d raise the boom end about 6 inches so there is more clearance for a bimini. Like meb135 said about his new sails, it’s like having a new boat.

The sails come off the boat during the off season so this has kept them looking white and like new. The old sails are still available for off-season use.

 

[Joe]

That I did not know, thanks.

Where does this outfit fit in with the three?

http://www.challengesailcloth.com/

Bob Bainbridge owns Challenge Sailcloth

 

[Roadking Larry]

Thanks Joe! There was probably something in there that I missed that would have told me that.

Good grief there is a lot of stuff to try to figure out.

 

[meb135]

Thanks Joe! There was probably something in there that I missed that would have told me that.

Good grief there is a lot of stuff to try to figure out.

Find a sail loft you like and talk to them about your needs, options and prices. Then, unless you have an unlimited budget, you'll find that many of the options will be illuminated very quickly because of the prices. This will then leave you with a much more manageable number of choices.