Steaming Light Question

[lillia28]

With the anchor light and running light on, boats approaching from the forward 225 degrees will see a "standard" , if somewhat distorted, configuration, a side light and a white steaming light way up there. From the stern 235 degrees, an approaching boat will see two white lights, which I do not believe is a standard configuration, but boats approaching from the stern 235 will be on a similar heading, an overtaking boat will be the give way vessel, and boat that is not overtaking will not be much of a collision risk. I will admit it is not the perfect solution, but it seems to me a reasonable solution. Other options: toss a sweater over the stern light, duct tape a flash light to the bow rail, although most flashlights will not give you the correct angles. If your electrical system is unreliable, pick up a set of battery powered clamp on nav lights. You could declare that it is illegal to move the boat, turn on the anchor light, drop the anchor, open another bottle of wine and party till sun-up. Sort of like telling your date that you ran out of gas...

 

[capta]

Let's not jump to conclusions...

As far as conclusions go, mine is based on the fact that a single disembodied colored light wobbling around in the sky ahead of my freighter gave me no indication of that vessel's distance from me. Before I could get to the radar and assess the situation, that eerie disembodied light slid by the bridge wing, not 20 feet away from my hull. Had the same boat been running standard running lights I would have seen at least one running light and probably the other reflecting off the water around the bow (remember, I was about 50' off the water), giving me some indication of her size and distance off.
Several times, in flat water close quarters harbor situations, a masthead tricolor has been completely obstructed by the bimini on my sailboat, and it has seemed to me that the vessel was completely unlit.
Nope, masthead tricolors are deadly dangerous, IMO.

 

[sailnoproblem]

In a pinch? What's the pinch--that he had to get your boat to you by a certain time; or that he had no crew aboard? Why not "pull over" and fix it, and then bill you for the extra time? A weak but relevant example here of the kinds of things that can really get people in trouble. Essentially, "I did not have time to do it right, so I punted--and got away with it" (this time).:naughty: Certainly, a "Master" should know that failure of the steaming light on sailboats occurs frequently; that they are not well maintained due to relatively inaccessible location. Why not inspect/replace before departure?

I think you need to lighten up some. Stuff happens that can't be fixed on the spot. You do the best with what you have at the time, and make the repair back at the dock.

 

[JamesG161]

Since I "sparked" a few of Kings Gambit's remarks , I thought he really summarized/solved the the overall theme from a lot of great inputs.

Please note his solution below.

I suppose that if all that is necessary is to identify yourself as a generic power-driven vessel of less than 12 m rather than a sailboat under power, whether sails up or down not a factor, then dousing the stern light and using the all-round anchor light when the steaming light is out works "in a pinch!" Interesting discussion, as always.

Although I am never sure what others thinks about a robust discussion, I like to think of it as a bunch "ole salt" sailors, each with a schooner of cold beer (perhaps one to many) telling stories.
With the his remark above, I felt like he just bought me a cold beer.:dance:

I love this forum...
Jim....

 

[Stu Jackson]

I think you need to lighten up some. Stuff happens that can't be fixed on the spot. You do the best with what you have at the time, and make the repair back at the dock.

NO, you fix it before you leave the dock. And if it happens "out there" you fix it, "out there." And if you're not prepared to fix it "out there" you need to reexamine your tools, equipment & spares.

 

[JamesG161]

Passes Stu Jackson a cold schooner of beer.

I can think of many situations where you can't fix it "out there" considering the safety of the boat and crew.

However, there was one solution of hoisting a temporary lite until weather, seas, daylight, etc. would allow a safe temporary fix.

In your tool box/spares list, add an all purpose bright 12VDC light, that can be suspended and of course an extra roll of Duct tape.
Jim...

 

[capta]

NO, you fix it before you leave the dock. And if it happens "out there" you fix it, "out there." And if you're not prepared to fix it "out there" you need to reexamine your tools, equipment & spares.

I generally agree with your opinions, but I'm hoping you were speaking tongue in cheek above.
So if you are just entering Richardson Bay, 15 minutes from your slip in Sausalito after a 19 day crossing from Hawaii, and your steaming light didn't come on, you are telling us you would stop in the middle of the channel and MacGyver something together (or go aloft and change the bulb) rather than flip on the anchor light and chuck a towel over the stern light?
I find that hard to believe.

 

[Stu Jackson]

capta, taking suggestions to the extreme is not always productive. Of course not, but the quick fix would work for those few minutes.

 

[capta]

capta, taking suggestions to the extreme is not always productive. Of course not, but the quick fix would work for those few minutes.

May I quote the OP, "I only need to motor about 15 minutes to get into the slip."?

 

[Stu Jackson]

May I quote the OP, "I only need to motor about 15 minutes to get into the slip."?

I agree. May I point you to Reply #45 that clearly indicated I was responding to another post, not the OP, with no limit on time? This is from reply #43 to another poster, not me.

Originally Posted by sailnoproblem
I think you need to lighten up some. Stuff happens that can't be fixed on the spot. You do the best with what you have at the time, and make the repair back at the dock.

 

[jibes138]

Something to consider is the light requirements are Minimum requirements. What you really care about is being seen. Ever see a cruise ship at night at sea? Yes they have navigation lights but every other light on the ship is on also. So light up your boat like the Las Vegas strip and others should see you fine. Close to shore in a well lit area like a city and navigation lights are hard to see.

 

[charliegrau]

COLREGS Rule 23 applies. An all around white light in lieu of stern and masthead lights are okay on a vessels less than 12meters. Some may take issue with the light being 35ft abouve the water, but I think you are legal as long as your anchor light provides the 2mi visibility prescribed. Agree that covering the stern light is advisable. Your light "signature" provides an aspect ratio to other vessels within sight in order to help them determine what Rules of the Road to apply. I would not recommend lighting your boat up to look like you might be at anchor and have forgotten to turn off your running lights...look like (and be) a power driven vessel underway and be vigilant until you are tied up.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

COLREGS Rule 23 applies. An all around white light in lieu of stern and masthead lights are okay on a vessels less than 12meters. Some may take issue with the light being 35ft abouve the water, but I think you are legal as long as your anchor light provides the 2mi visibility prescribed. Agree that covering the stern light is advisable. Your light "signature" provides an aspect ratio to other vessels within sight in order to help them determine what Rules of the Road to apply. I would not recommend lighting your boat up to look like you might be at anchor and have forgotten to turn off your running lights...look like (and be) a power driven vessel underway and be vigilant until you are tied up.

While this may be technically in accordance with Rule 23 it is against the intent of the rule and just plain stupid. To comply with a rule you would make yourself less visible to vessels approaching you from the back? That blatantly flies in the face of Rule 2:

(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

By covering your stern light you would create a potential hazard to comply with the rule.

The answer is simple, do the safest thing possible to get into port and then make immediate repairs before going out again. So continue with what you have, add a temporary steaming light if possible or make a repair if you safely can do so. And if the USCG issues you a fine for a broken steaming light so be it.

 

[charliegrau]

"Stupid" is a pretty harsh characterization. The OP said there were no other boats in sight and asked if using the anchor light woud be "appropriate". Ans: Yes, but....
Covering the stern light to avoid a confusing signal is something to consider, and I stand by my opinion that it provides the most correct light signature. If one does, as you suggest, rig a temp steaming light, it needs to have the correct arc of visibility, and it takes time. Do you stop while you rig it, or keep going. Either way a good bit of attention is focused on the temp fix possibly diverting attention from safe navigation. Another option would have been to put the transmission in neutral and just sail, keeping the engine available if needed, or continue without the steaming light and have others consider him under sail and act accordingly. These are all pretty much equally less than ideal. Ultimately the Captain makes the decision and takes the responsibility.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

"Stupid" is a pretty harsh characterization. The OP said there were no other boats in sight and asked if using the anchor light woud be "appropriate". Ans: Yes, but....
Covering the stern light to avoid a confusing signal is something to consider, and I stand by my opinion that it provides the most correct light signature. If one does, as you suggest, rig a temp steaming light, it needs to have the correct arc of visibility, and it takes time. Do you stop while you rig it, or keep going. Either way a good bit of attention is focused on the temp fix possibly diverting attention from safe navigation. Another option would have been to put the transmission in neutral and just sail, keeping the engine available if needed, or continue without the steaming light and have others consider him under sail and act accordingly. These are all pretty much equally less than ideal. Ultimately the Captain makes the decision and takes the responsibility.

Your number one job on a boat is to get it back to land in one piece with all of the crew you left with while not endangering any other vessels on the water. So to do something that would interfere with that is stupid. Sorry you think that is harsh.

Covering a stern light and relying on a light 50 feet in the air would make you less visible to a boat approaching you from behind. This would increase the likelihood of an overtaking vessel hitting your boat. Therefore it is a bad decision.

If you don't have sufficient crew to make the temporary fix then either drop anchor in a safe place to make the repair or proceed without a steaming light. But if you get fined by the USCG for not displaying the appropriate lights that is on you. Pay your fine and move on. If you are involved in a marine incident you will likely be found to be at fault for not displaying the correct lights.

Engine on in neutral is still considered under power. They can't see your propeller isn't turning so their only course is to assume it is in gear. So that doesn't really help you.

Sailing into a tight harbor or marina simply because you don't have the right lights to display could be another bone-headed move if you don't have the skills to perform this without endangering your boat, crew or other vessels. Of all the boaters I know there is only one that has enough skill to do this and I have seen him put his boat stern into a slip under sail. Otherwise you are adding additional risk simply to avoid the fact that you have a light out.

And again, I go back to the lesser of all evils here. If you don't have a steaming light the worst case scenario is that you would be identified by other boats as a vessel under sail and they may give way to you when they didn't have to. If you cover your stern light the worst case scenario is that an overtaking vessel doesn't see you until it's too late and you are in a collision.

 

[Ukeluthier]

The 360-degree masthead light on my catboat (serves as both anchor and steaming light as stock from builder) is only 23' above the water.

That's really no higher than the stern light on my father-in-law's 51' motor cruiser which is on a stalk on a radar arch.

So... is his configuration stupid?

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

The 360-degree masthead light on my catboat (serves as both anchor and steaming light as stock from builder) is only 23' above the water.

That's really no higher than the stern light on my father-in-law's 51' motor cruiser which is on a stalk on a radar arch.

So... is his configuration stupid?

In my opinion, yes. If I had your boat or your father-in-law's and did a lot of night boating I would change them both.

Just because the factory did doesn't mean it is best for your use. An example of that is a the optional red over green masthead light for sailboats. I don't think any factories install these lights, but if I am going to be offshore at night in a shipping area I would most definitely install one of these lights. I would do this because while it's legal to run with just your side lights and stern light, the reality is that in 5 foot waves you will disappear to any large container boats headings towards you. But with the optional lights you will be visible.

So while a stern light 23 feet in the air is legal on your boat it is less likely to be seen by small motor boats in your area. So I would change that configuration to give me a better chance at being seen by the boats I am likely to encounter in my area.

 

[Hobopacket]

http://www.ncwildlife.org/Portals/0/Boating/documents/VOG.pdf

So in NC it is legal to run no steaming light. Just the Bicolor in front and 135 stern light in rear is legal. FIGURE 4. OR FIGURE 3. Just the anchor light and bicolor.
This is for boats less than 39' which is most of us.

 

[Gunni]

Hobopacket - those are North Carolina's Inland rules, don't apply once you go out.

 

[Hobopacket]

offshore yes, inland applies to all inland coastal waters just the same. Didn't know where OP was boating. Just a thought to look up the local regs.