Retractable Keel lock down bolt issues

[Bruce Bythrow]

I have a 1987 C-22 that sits in a fresh water slip 4 months out of the year. The cable to the retractable keel was replaced two years ago. As the manual suggests, the keel should remain retracted when not sailing, which I have done. Catalina Direct Tech Support stated that the manual is wrong, and the keel should remain down. The boat is in a man made lake with reduced changes in water depth common all season, thereby suggesting that the keel remain retracted until reaching deeper water. The problem is that when finished sailing yesterday, after retracting the keel, the lock down bolt just spins in place, indicating that the lock down is not working. Can this be corrected without removing the boat from the water? If the lock down is not working, when sailing in heavier winds, would the keel be forced to retract at all? My rudder would retract in heavier winds until I placed a breakaway lock down pin in it.

This is my 3rd season of sailing and any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[allen-deckard]

your gonna get 20 reply's to your question.

1. first side is gonna say that the keel lock down bolt is simply to small to ever do anything if the boat was flipped over on it's back to which it's supposed to be designed for.
The other benefit of the keel lock down bolt is if you were to run aground to keep the keel from slamming back down into the fiberglass.

2. The other side is gonna say the manufacturer made the keel lock down bolt for a reason and it should be used.


Me personally, mine leaked I got tiard of messing with it and pulled it out and filled it with 5200. I'm under the first category and if a catastrophic event happened and my boat turtled I have an impossible belief that the keel lock down bolt would ever stop anything. But that my opinion and everyones got one.

As far as weeds and waves pushing the keel up like your kick up rudder? NEVER gonna happen that part I can guarantee you.

Remember your keel when down is only down at something around 45deg angle (yah that not it but it's close enough for this discussion) your keel weighs in at 550 pounds give or take and no amount of weeds or waves is gonna push it up.

I've been out in 15+ foot swells, bad chop and the waves coming up to the mast over the bow and weeds so thick they take the boat to a near stop trying to get threw them and I've never had the keel kick up and slam down.

With that said I'll agree the keel lock down was put there by the manufacturer and obviously they know a lot more than I do about boats and their capabilities being engineers an making 15000+ catalina 22's and since manufacturers hardly never put something on anything they don't have to simply out of a monetary reasons.

If yours is stripped out like it sounds your gonna need to tap it out and put in a larger bolt if you still want it in there. That's about your only choice ..


Anyway your gonna get a lot of options from others some your gonna like some not pick one that your comfortable with and go for it.

BTW the lock down bolt is ABOVE the water line and can be removed in the water. They leak water from splashing not because it's under water.

 

[Bruce Bythrow]

Thanks for the quick answer Allen, I appreciate your comments and opinion

 

[caguy]

The PO on my Mac 25 recessed the fiberglass to give the washers a place to seat and distribute the load. With this set up if you ground the keel the bolt will not cut through the glass. The diagram is not proportional.

 

[hawk232]

what caguy illustrated is a proper "lock down" setup. the c22 setup is better described as a "keel friction bolt". I am also of the first party that believes that when the luggage hits the cabin top (literally and figuratively) that 1/2" or whatever it is contact patch (they could have at least put a big pad on the end of the bolt to give more surface area) WILL NOT keep the keel from slamming back into the trunk. I fiberglassed over my hole during the rebuild

 

[Stu Jackson]

Allen's right. We went through all this before the internet was invented by that guy, so relied on the Mainbrace and Mainsheet magazines.

And I still haven't heard of anyone who has reported actually turning turtle on a Catalina 22.

Maybe they didn't "make it" but, heck, most of those worst case stories are just that.

We sailed our C22 for five years on SF Bay and Clear Lake, CA, where the winds were high, waves not so much. It's the waves'll getcha.

One day, after the Konoctai Cup races on Clear Lake, it was blowing like stink. You know the drill...

We had to go through a narrow pass to get back to our home port and the bigger section of the lake.

I asked one of the "old salts" "What should we do?"

He said: "Pick one sail or the other, if the main reef it, and just go."

Worked just fine.

We never "locked" our keel down, 'cuz after the first try to do that with the silly bolt, I realized that it's intended purpose was not as advertised.

Don't bother.

Good luck.

 

[captcoho]

Having sailed a Catalina 22 in a lot of rough seas on Lake Michigan and having to forget to "lock" the keel bolt down. To sailing a Catalina 25 with a keel weighting #1550 Lbs. and no factory installed keel lock bolt in the same seas. I would not worry much about that smaller, lighter keel punching through the keel-trunk any more then the 1550 lbs on the C 25.
I do know that the PO of the 25 left the boat in a slip with the keel down. And sitting in the slip for six months rocking back and forth left the bronze keel pin as well as the bore in the keel with considerable wear.
There is Technical Information at Catalina Direct which include pictures that refers to this very subject. I would recommend anyone with a swing keel read these articles.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Two different issues:

1. Sailing with keel lock-down (haha) bolt in place

2. Berthing boat with keel down and "swinging"

I don't recall (it's been 30 years!!!) if we cranked the keel up when we left the boat in the water during the summer. I doubt it, since the harbor was quite protected.

But I do recall reading the suggestions to raise the keel to prevent issues when berthed.

Your boat, your choice.

Depends on where you berth your boat and the conditions in your harbor.

Good luck.

 

[piedpiperIII]

My first swing keel boat an Islander 23 did not have any lock down feature. I never knew there was such an animal in fact that boat had the keel pivet thru the trunk from inside and was sealed over. I never had any trouble of knock down or worry of going turtle. Remember these boats will round up way before that happens unless you are in a hurricane. I will leave my lock pin loose.

 

[spartacus99]

I tried to unscrew the keel locking bolt the other day and couldn't because it was bent at a 10 degree angle. (Im pretty sure the po lowered the keel with the bolt still tightened) After some mild violence and much cursing I got it free and spent some time fabbing a new bolt. Oak doweled handles, stainless steel, the works. Sailing yesterday and forgot to tighten it after I lowered the keel.. made no difference, winds were 15 ish and seas were 3 foot chop. I have absolutely no faith in the bolt's ability to stop that keel. Does it even stop the keel from going side to side?

 

[allen-deckard]

I want to put my 2 cents in here on having the keel down while at dock or anchored out.

If your keel is setup properly then there is no side to side swing and no wear on the keel pin.

I have absolutely no movement side to side and if you do I suggest that be rectified.

 

[Gene Neill]

I'm gonna say maybe it depends on the boat. My keel bangs loud and hard in a rolly anchorage when raised. I would never leave it up if I had enough water to leave it down. Once I lower it, all is good. I HATE shallow anchorages for this reason.

I have never used my keel lockdown bolt. Pretty sure I never will.

 

[spartacus99]

You know what, all these different opiniins, I'm just gonna take the damn keel off and see how she sails without it.

 

[spartacus99]

Hmm didn't go so well...

 

[spartacus99]

If Michael Bay sailed without a keel....

 

[Gene Neill]

Hmm didn't go so well...


View attachment 88508

It was worth a shot.

 

[CloudDiver]

That'll buff out...

If Michael Bay sailed without a keel....

View attachment 88509

 

[CapnGrumpyBreeches]

Reviving this post (hopefully)

I've been searching the threads regarding keel bolts. I do not use the keel bolt on my 87' but the last few weeks I have been sailing on some rough days and it lead me to wonder. How much movement does and unlocked keel make as the boat is pushing through (well over) waves? By movement I mean does an unlocked keel act as a pendulum to a degree? From bow to stern of course.

 

[allen-deckard]

no it does not in any scenario swing fore to aft the keel hangs at something like 30 deg so it's always under a lot of pressure.

Side to side swing is debatable some have some don't I personally have no swing side to side with it up or down but my keel is very tight in the hangers. but all that's another issue.

Yours is front to back and no its nearly impossible. I've been in some crazy rough stuff by accident since I moved to the keys and no issue.

 

[CapnGrumpyBreeches]

no it does not in any scenario swing fore to aft the keel hangs at something like 30 deg so it's always under a lot of pressure. Side to side swing is debatable some have some don't I personally have no swing side to side with it up or down but my keel is very tight in the hangers. but all that's another issue. Yours is front to back and no its nearly impossible. I've been in some crazy rough stuff by accident since I moved to the keys and no issue.

Thanks for the help!