Dauphine Island Race

Kermit · Apr 28, 2015

KZW said:
As for me, I resent, totally resent, that people went out knowing the conditions would deteriorate, and then putting Coast Guard and rescue personnel at risk. Further, they wasted my tax dollars doing something totally stupid...

This guy epitomizes stupid. He even had a clear option for not doing what he did. He and his boat not only survived but came through without a scratch. Maybe theCoast Guard should fine him for being stupid even though he came out smelling like a rose. At the very least, KZW should resent him.

http://www.oceanofnews.com/watch-this-crazy-catamaran-surf-its-way-into-port/

rockingham · Apr 28, 2015

PFD's are always a good idea and for an organized race are within the domain of the race committee to enforce. As well as minimum boat capabilities. You could get into licensing the skippers or enforcing some minimum amount of nautical knowhow but then the "nanny state haters" will be up in arms. Humankind is too diverse to keep everyone safe all the time. I suspect that next year the committee might be more inclined to call off the race given an iffy forecast.

braol · Apr 28, 2015

If anything, this incident highlights the value of either real-time dopplar radar imaging or NWS radio forecasts.

Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi · Apr 28, 2015

I was the primary Committee Boat at our races for Kentucky Laje Sailing Club and just retired after doing it for 10 years. During that time, we held a lot of races, probably in excess of 75. I had onboard computers, great weather software, tracking KVH with the Weather Channel and we still occasionally got caught in some bad weather on a distance race. Conditions change so fast that the Race Committee and the Committee boat can only do so much. It is well understood by our racers that it is their and only their responsibility to decide when to race and when to quit. We didn't race when conditions were bad, but forecasts are hjust that - educated guesses, not reality. We experienced gust fronts to 60 knots and had one boat dismast, even after we put out warnings that the gust from was moving down the lake. Racers are interested in winning. As for those of you who think the Committee Boat and Race Committee can enforce life jacket rules, we don't monitor the boats after they leave the starting gate, so it is up to each Captain and crew.

I understand the Race Committee's decision to start this race. If the storm track had been 25 miles either side of that race course, this blog wouldn't even be here. I can guarantee you that the Race Committtee regrets this as much as anybody. They did't want this to happen and are not responsible for it.

Gunni · Apr 28, 2015

In the distance, Goolsby and his crew saw a larger boat heading in their direction to help. Instead, Goolsby said the larger vessel hit his boat and his two men jumped into the water. Goolsby said he climbed aboard the larger vessel to throw his crew mates a life ring.

“In hindsight I should have stayed in that boat but my crew was in the water and I wasn't about to abandon them. So I jumped from the back of that boat and climbed on the wreckage of ours and my boat sank from under my feet into the water,”

Here's to Larry Goolsby, a skipper's skipper.

capta · Apr 28, 2015

Davidasailor26 said:
From the looks of it that crew had about all they could take to keep themselves upright going dead downwind. I can't blame them for not trying to go to assist. Even if they had gone over there, what would they have been able to accomplish in those conditions? They weren't going to be able to pick anyone out of the water, and could have made things worse for everyone by trying to avoid colliding with each other. The crew did say several minutes later that they were concerned about the other boat and that they should go back around after the storm blew out.

As for the decision to go out - reports in the thread above were that there was a 40% chance of storms. Can those second guessing the actions of these crews honestly say they've never gone out in a 40% chance of storms? I'm sure some of us would've stayed in that day, but it's not quite so open and shut of a decision that those who went out deserve ridicule.
Mistakes were made, particularly they delays in donning PFDs, but all in all I don't think this crew did too badly.

When I look at a weather report, especially for the Gulf Coast, Florida and the mid-Atlantic states and the weather reports say "that there was a 40% chance of (SEVERE) T storms", I read that as 40% of the area will experience those SEVERE T storms, not that there is a 40% chance of them appearing at all. If you live in those areas, you KNOW that there will be T storms almost daily in the spring, summer and fall!
Local knowledge is the key here, and every single sailor out there should have been prepared for what that big, black, ugly and mean looking wall of weather could bring.
The idea that the CG would go after the race committee is absolutely abhorrent to me and could bring an end to small craft racing as we know it, in the states. I'm not going to be on any race committee that might be sued because a captain or ten made some very bad decisions. Wrong in principle and wrong if executed.
The captains are the responsible parties here, no one else! After all, isn't that why we get paid the BIG bucks?

Jackdaw · Apr 28, 2015

CaptDon01 said:
Here is a link to the interview from the Skipper of the Catalina-22 that was run over and he and his crew were left for dead as the larger sailboat sailed on.

Unbelievable!

http://www.fox10tv.com/story/28908839/skipper-we-were-just-clinging-to-the-life-ring

Glad this ended well. It would be very interesting to know what really happened at the impact point, and hear the perspective from the other boat.

It seems unlikely that they 'ran them over', but it is possible. Running them over involves a VERY violent collision, and it is unlikely anyone would have been able to jump from one boat to the other. And the boats often get tangled in lines and rigging.

It is more likely the boats 'kissed' beams. That would make jumping more possible and likely.

I said this in an earlier post; coming to the aid of anther boat in violent weather is VERY dangerous. For both boats. Its quite possible that the crew of the other boat was unable (or now too scared to be willing) to come back.

In any case the skipper of the C22 is a stand up guy.

justsomeguy · Apr 28, 2015

http://www.al.com/news/mobile/index.ssf/2015/04/dauphin_island_regatta_radar_i.html

Brian D · Apr 28, 2015

CaptDon01 said:
Link to the interview of the Skipper of the Catalina-22 that was run over by a larger sailboat. The the boat sailed on and left Larry and his crew for dead in the water as they held onto a life ring for 45 minutes until another sailboat rescued them.

http://www.fox10tv.com/story/28908839/skipper-we-were-just-clinging-to-the-life-ring

Kudos to the second boat that picked them up. I am sure that most of the members here would do the same, regardless. If we look back at the S/Y Nirvana Now sinking and rescue, it would be unthinkable to leave fellow sailors in such a precarious state.

rockingham · Apr 28, 2015

Failure to stop and render assistance is despicable, especially since it looks like the skipper of the other boat was probably more worried about financial entanglements than the lives of those he had thrown into the water. May his Karmic reward soon follow.

rockingham · Apr 28, 2015

I would suspect it takes more than a "kiss" to cause enough damage to a C22 to send it to the bottom. "T-boning" would offer the captain on the foredeck a chance to jump onto the second boat also. Unfortunately the second captain was probably way out of his element at that moment and looking for a place to change his underware rather than saving somebody's life. Panic kills, usually the person panicking gets the dirt bath though. It would be a fine gesture for the second captain, now that he knows who he hit,for whatever reason, to call and apologize and offer financial assistance. That would be a "stand up" guy too.

Jackdaw · Apr 28, 2015

rockingham said:
I would suspect it takes more than a "kiss" to cause enough damage to a C22 to send it to the bottom. "T-boning" would offer the captain on the foredeck a chance to jump onto the second boat also. Unfortunately the second captain was probably way out of his element at that moment and looking for a place to change his underware rather than saving somebody's life. Panic kills, usually the person panicking gets the dirt bath though. It would be a fine gesture for the second captain, now that he knows who he hit,for whatever reason, to call and apologize and offer financial assistance. That would be a "stand up" guy too.

You're right, all these things are very possible. It will be very interesting to hear the other party's story. The C22 driver said he broached several times. A C22 will sink if it lays on it side. Downflooding through the cockpit lockers (and faster if the boards are not in) can bring it down.

Listening to the C22 guy talk, it just does not seem like he got 'ran over' by a much larger boat. That type of accident is like being in a plane crash and people talk of the violence and chaos. We'll see.

Jackdaw · Apr 28, 2015

A well-founded voice of reason from the local paper:

What happened during the regatta clearly wasn't the norm; nor could it have been imagined. Seasoned sailors say they had never – never -- been on the water in a meteorological cocktail like Saturday's, with hurricane-force winds blowing for 45 minutes straight. In a town where the sky changes every 10 minutes, that's really saying something.

Maybe it's the mariners' unwritten contract with the water that has tamped down major outcries of blame over the disaster. Yes, people have raised questions about the race's delay, but the code among captains is and always has been that you're responsible for you and your crew. You don't rely on other people to check the radar, the buoy readings or the skies. That's your job.

Full deal here.

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/04/we_make_a_deal_with_mother_nat.html#incart_story_package

Daveinet · Apr 28, 2015

Jerry Clark H356 SV Persi said:
As for those of you who think the Committee Boat and Race Committee can enforce life jacket rules, we don't monitor the boats after they leave the starting gate, so it is up to each Captain and crew...

I would not expect one's ability to enforce life jacket rules to be infinite, but just that it would be a statement of policy further putting the responsibility on the skippers and crew. Sports can be self regulating, without getting nasty. Seatbelt laws used to only be a secondary office, meaning you could not get pulled over for violating it. Even so, it did have a pretty significant affect on the number of people who wore them. Think further about how to make it reasonable, the policy could read that if rain is in clear view on the horizon, then the jackets must be worn.

Something else to brainstorm about is how to break up the herd mentality. If everyone else is going out, seriously who is going to hold back, especially in a competitive situation.

kloudie1 · Apr 28, 2015

Life jackets are certainly a good thing, but ya have to remember that during the summer here they feel like a sauna wrap.. so on larger boats we really get used to not using them because they are so uncomfortable.. I know that is a hard thing to understand if you don't sail where it is normally HOT, but that is the "why" of the PFD story.. Not absolving any body, just a note..

EDIT: Remember too that the water there is 10-12 feet deep.. if a larger boat goes down, there will be stuff sticking out of the water.. We use harnesses more than PFD's so ya don't fall off..

Dan Johnson · Apr 28, 2015

From the news reports...

not sure if all those involved (and possibly missing) were actually race participants. The news report indicated that there were a number of day sailors out on the water at the same time this race was being run. I noticed some VERY small craft in several storm videos taken.

Anyone have any further info?

shemandr · Apr 28, 2015

Can we change the direction of this discussion from blame to storm tactics? What do you do when you see a black frontal line approaching with boiling water underneath?
Having the soul of a power boater the first thing I want to do is get the sails down. Before donning PFD's, putting on rain gear or anything else. While that's happening get an eyeball on nearby boats because you won't be able to see them when it hits.
Others say ....

Kermit · Apr 28, 2015

I'm with shemandr. The only difference is I wear my pfd at all times so donning mine wouldn't be an issue. I might change to a normal vest instead of inflatable if time permitted, though. I also tend to drop the sails and start the outboard. Just seems easier than figuring out what the heck to do with the sails.