Xantrex warning

B

Bloodline

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Apr 11, 2013
19
Beneteau 373 Chs
I have a factory installed xantrex inverter on my 373. After being alerted by my diver that my boat shocked him, I went searching for the cause, immediately.

Turns out, the xantrex inverter is normally in a bonded state when a/c power to the inverter is off. Doesn't matter if the unit is on or off, just matters that the a/c power to it is on.

If you have one and you are plugged into shore power, it's imperative that it sees a/c power.

I really see this as a dangerous and costly design flaw.
 
woodster

woodster

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Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Bloodline said:
I have a factory installed xantrex inverter on my 373. After being alerted by my diver that my boat shocked him, I went searching for the cause, immediately.

Turns out, the xantrex inverter is normally in a bonded state when a/c power to the inverter is off. Doesn't matter if the unit is on or off, just matters that the a/c power to it is on.

If you have one and you are plugged into shore power, it's imperative that it sees a/c power.

I really see this as a dangerous and costly design flaw.
Click to expand
not sure about how yours is wired but it may well be an incorrect installation or wiring mistake...just food for thought
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

.
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Bloodline said:
I have a factory installed xantrex inverter on my 373. After being alerted by my diver that my boat shocked him, I went searching for the cause, immediately.

Turns out, the xantrex inverter is normally in a bonded state when a/c power to the inverter is off. Doesn't matter if the unit is on or off, just matters that the a/c power to it is on.

If you have one and you are plugged into shore power, it's imperative that it sees a/c power.

I really see this as a dangerous and costly design flaw.
Click to expand
This is simply an improper installation done by someone who did not properly understand the importance of a proper installation or choosing the proper inverter & transfer switch for the job....

When away from shore power the AC GREEN and AC WHITE should be bonded at the inverter as it becomes your "source of power".

When on shore power the AC GREEN and AC WHITE should NEVER be bonded.

Which model Xantrex inverter is this? Is it a marine model or a shore based model?

For folks who don't understand these subtleties please hire a professional who does...!!!
 
B

Bloodline

.
Apr 11, 2013
19
Beneteau 373 Chs
woodster said:
what was there suggested fix
Click to expand
There is no fix. If shorepower is connected, the inverter must see it to "un- bond".

The inverter doesn't have to be on, it just needs to see the shorepower.

I'm an electrician and have been involved in marina electrical systems for many years. We found this on some new Pursuit brand power boats, as well. Don't know what brand inverter they had on board.

My boat was pushing the majority of the neutral current to the propshaft. I chased it down the hard way and determined it was the inverter. I called Xantrex and they informed me that it's power off (A/C or D/C) state is bonded. It has to see A/C to open the bond.

Seems to me that the unit should only bond when powered up and on DC only.
 
B

Bloodline

.
Apr 11, 2013
19
Beneteau 373 Chs
Maine Sail said:
This is simply an improper installation done by someone who did not properly understand the importance of a proper installation or choosing the proper inverter & transfer switch for the job....

When away from shore power the AC GREEN and AC WHITE should be bonded at the inverter as it becoems your "source of power".

When on shore power the AC GREEN and AC WHITE should NEVER be bonded.

Which model Xantrex inverter is this? Is it a marine model or a shore based model?

For folks who don't understand these subtleties please hire a professional who does...!!!
Click to expand
You are correct in your understanding, but incorrect about this situation. It's a marine inverter with built in transfer switch, factory installed. Please read again. Slower...
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Bloodline said:
You are correct in your understanding, but incorrect about this situation. It's a marine inverter with built in transfer switch, factory installed. Please read again. Slower...
Click to expand
If off shore power the inverter neutral & ground are bonded. If on shore power they are not, if properly installed. Something is not "properly" installed if you are on shore power and still have neutral bonded to Earth..

Just because it is factory installed does not mean it was done correctly. I see stuff like this daily and factories do not always do proper installations that conform with marine safety standards. You may also have another neutral to Earth bond somewhere else on-board.

"Xantrex:
AC Output Neutral Bonding
The AC source must have its neutral conductor bonded to ground.
Bonding system The Freedom SW provides a system that
automatically connects the neutral conductor of the inverter’s AC
output circuit to safety ground (“bonding” it) while the inverter/
charger is inverting, and disconnects it (“unbonding” it) when the
inverter/charger is connected to external AC power. This system is
designed to conform to installation codes that require AC sources
such as inverters and generators to have their neutral conductors tied
to ground at the source of power in the same way that the neutral
conductor from the utility is tied to ground. These same codes
specify that the neutral can only be connected to ground in one place
at any one time."
 
B

Bloodline

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Apr 11, 2013
19
Beneteau 373 Chs
mainesail-

There is nothing wrong. I'm simply stating exactly what you posted from Xantrex.

My boat has a circuit breaker that powers the A/C side of the inverter on the main panel. If that breaker is OFF and the boat is connected to shorepower, then the inverter is bonded and a dangerous condition exists.

Once again, I'm simply stating that if your shorepower is connected, the xantrex inverter must see it or your boat is bonded.
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

.
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Bloodline said:
mainesail-

There is nothing wrong. I'm simply stating exactly what you posted from Xantrex.

My boat has a circuit breaker that powers the A/C side of the inverter on the main panel. If that breaker is OFF and the boat is connected to shorepower, then the inverter is bonded and a dangerous condition exists.

Once again, I'm simply stating that if your shorepower is connected, the xantrex inverter must see it or your boat is bonded.
Click to expand
And this is an improper installation as I mentioned earlier....

Shore Inlet > Double pole breaker if distance more than 10' > Inverter auto transfer switch > Panel

You use the remote to turn on/off the inverter not the breaker on the AC panel.....

If using an AT inverter the AT switch is the first thing the incoming AC sees.. Simple stuff but your builder did it incorrectly....

Just wire it correctly and it will conform to ABYC safety standards and you won't be running a risk of ESD deaths caused by your boat....
 
B

Bloodline

.
Apr 11, 2013
19
Beneteau 373 Chs
Maine Sail said:
And this is an improper installation as I mentioned earlier....

Shore Inlet > Double pole breaker if distance more than 10' > Inverter auto transfer switch > Panel

You use the remote to turn on/off the inverter not the breaker on the AC panel.....
Click to expand
Thank you. Makes perfect sense to me. I'm going to fix this.

So, wonder how many beneteaus are like this?
 
Charles Erwin

Charles Erwin

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Jan 30, 2012
1,142
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Seems to me this is not a Xantrex design issue - it is a manufacturer design issue. Maybe this is not a US built boat? [Neutral] Safety green is not bonded to the motor in a Euro boat (I think.)

In any case, why not eliminate/bypass altogether the separate inverter AC breaker. I cannot see any useful purpose to a separate inverter breaker and it is an obvious hazard.

If this boat was in fresh water some swimmer is going to get hurt bad - maybe dead.
 
Last edited:
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

.
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Charles Erwin said:
Seems to me this is not a Xantrex design issue - it is a manufacturer design issue. Maybe this is not a US built boat? Neutral is not bonded to the motor in a Euro boat (I think.)
Click to expand
Neutral is not bonded to the engine on US boats, only AC GREEN / Earth safety ground is...

The only places AC neutral and AC grounding are ever bonded, on a US boat, are at a Genset (only while off shore power), Inverter (only while off shore power) or on some boats, an isolation transformer.

In no other circumstance should there be continuity between AC WHITE and AC GREEN on-board your boat when unplugged from shore power.

If there is continuity between AC WHITE and AC GREEN, when unplugged from shore power, you have a bad electrical problem that needs correction.
 
Charles Erwin

Charles Erwin

.
Jan 30, 2012
1,142
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Absolutely right - I edited my diction just as you posted your correction

Thanks
 
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