FWIW, I'm just passing this on...

Ron20324

Ron20324

.
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Penetrating Oils


"Machinist's Workshop" recently published information on various
penetrating oils . The magazine reports they tested these products for
"break out "torque" on rusted nuts and bolts. A subjective test was made of
popular penetrating oils, with the unit of measuremerit being the
torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" bolt.

Average torque load to loosen nut:
No Oil used ........................516 foot pounds
WD-40 ..................... ........238 foot pounds
PB Blaster .........................214 foot pounds
Liquid Wrench ....................127 foot pounds
Kano Kroil .........................106 foot pounds
ATF/Acetone mix..................53 foot pounds

The ATF/Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50/50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts
better than any commercial product in this one particular test.

Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with
equally good results. Note also that Liquid Wrench is almost as good as
Kroil for 20% of the price.

ATF/Acetone mix is best, but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner
in a 50/50 mix. ATF = Any type of Automatic Transmission Fluid

This version of the story was in one of the Military Vehicle Club
newsletters.
 
DougM

DougM

.
Jul 24, 2005
2,242
Beneteau 323 Manistee, MI
What was the bolt size? That is a lot of torque "dry", probably more than enough to shear a smaller bolt...
 
centerline

centerline

.
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Ron20324 said:
Penetrating Oils

"Machinist's Workshop" recently published information on various
penetrating oils . The magazine reports they tested these products for
"break out "torque" on rusted nuts and bolts. A subjective test was made of
popular penetrating oils, with the unit of measuremerit being the
torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" bolt.

Average torque load to loosen nut:
No Oil used ........................516 foot pounds
WD-40 ..................... ........238 foot pounds
PB Blaster .........................214 foot pounds
Liquid Wrench ....................127 foot pounds
Kano Kroil .........................106 foot pounds
ATF/Acetone mix..................53 foot pounds

The ATF/Acetone mix is a "home brew" mix of 50/50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note this "home brew" released bolts
better than any commercial product in this one particular test.

Our local machinist group mixed up a batch, and we all now use it with
equally good results. Note also that Liquid Wrench is almost as good as
Kroil for 20% of the price.

ATF/Acetone mix is best, but you can also use ATF and lacquer thinner
in a 50/50 mix. ATF = Any type of Automatic Transmission Fluid

This version of the story was in one of the Military Vehicle Club
newsletters.
Click to expand
With a "scientifically rusted/controlled" bolt, we dont really know what that means other than there must have been some corrosion showing on the hardware.
so I would suppose the results could be skewed a bit in relation to what a person whould encounter outside the lab
in the real world world of "naturally" rusted bolts that have been perpetually corroding for years with all sorts of contaminates that the enviroment can provide, be it bilge water, dirt, acid/alkali/salt, ect, i cant agree with the findings.
 
Dave602

Dave602

.
Jan 22, 2008
321
Hunter 29.5 Gloucester, VA
ATF is an old mechanics trick. Ive used it for years. Never mixed with Acetone though.
 
C

Clansman

.
Jul 7, 2014
3
Macgregor 26 D Port Rowan
Thanks Ron20324.

I had never heard this one. Did they happen to show you what they used to apply it (spray bottle)?

Cheers,
O
 
kloudie1

kloudie1

.
Nov 6, 2006
10,214
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Interesting ! Going to have to mix a little batch.. I have been using Kroil for 30 years and found it to be pretty good stuff. We did some testing on big heat exchangers whose nuts ran at +500F for four or so years between disassembly and Kroil was what we used.. but... we found that assembling with a good anti-seize was better than anything else! I always have acetone and ATF on hand, so this is a no brainer. Thanks for the tip

Edit: yes indeed those are hot nuts
 
Last edited:
Scott

Scott

.
Sep 24, 1997
242
Hunter 31_83-87 Middle River, Md
it works

centerline said:
With a "scientifically rusted/controlled" bolt, we dont really know what that means other than there must have been some corrosion showing on the hardware.
so I would suppose the results could be skewed a bit in relation to what a person whould encounter outside the lab
in the real world world of "naturally" rusted bolts that have been perpetually corroding for years with all sorts of contaminates that the enviroment can provide, be it bilge water, dirt, acid/alkali/salt, ect, i cant agree with the findings.
Click to expand
These guys say it works! Don't try to complicate things. KISS!!: clap:
 
centerline

centerline

.
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Scott said:
These guys say it works! Don't try to complicate things. KISS!!: clap:
Click to expand
but im not a sheep that follows the flock:D...
I have spent too many years working on barnyard equipment, boats and dirt machinery, and I know what real rust is...
 
Johnb

Johnb

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Jan 22, 2008
1,505
Hunter 37-cutter Richmond CA
centerline said:
but im not a sheep that follows the flock:D...
I have spent too many years working on barnyard equipment, boats and dirt machinery, and I know what real rust is...
Click to expand
So what would you recommend?
 
Gunni

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Just be careful with the torch when you work with acetone, it volatilizes to a easily ignited vapor cloud.

And for the love of god, protect your precious plasticizers! :D
 
centerline

centerline

.
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Johnb said:
So what would you recommend?
Click to expand
the title of the subject could be a bit misleading, and possibly the reason for some confusion, maybe on my part as well:D

"penetrating oil"... this would lead one to believe they are talking about freeing heavily rusted fasteners.

but of the products listed, acetone is by far the best wicking fluid available, and trans fluid is by far the best lubricant... mixed together they become a "penetrating oil" as the subject title says... but there is nothing in the formulation that will dissolve the rust, so it is actually a penetrating lubricant, ie oil, which IS helpful to the cause.

but a lubricating penetrant is not the best for "busting" rust.... that would be a product that actually breaks down and dissolves the rust away. then the lubricant can help the fastener move once there is a place for it to move to....

of what is listed... PB blaster or kroil has been proven over and over to be the best rust busting penetrants.... there only a couple of other brands that are as good.

take any of the products listed and spray them on an old rusted object.... let them sit for 5 minutes... then wipe them with your hand, or a rag.... you will see the kroil and the pb blaster is actually dissolving the rust away, where as on the others your hand will come away with as clean of product as when you sprayed it on...
 
Ken13559

Ken13559

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Oct 29, 2005
2,366
Hunter Marine 326 303 Singapore
I've of using ATF/Acetone mix. Prep some a year or two back, it still sits in my oil stuff compartment waiting for some bolts threads to rust. Still waiting. :D
 
Anonymous 121765

Anonymous 121765

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Jan 6, 2010
1,520
Ron,

I like you & the guys have used a variety of rust-breaking fluids. Depending on the condition of the bolt/screw, some work others not so much.

When I tackle badly rusted hardware, there are a few things I do so as not to strip the head or snap the shafts. I spray & let it sit, sometimes I add heat, depending on dissimilar metals, I use ice, other times I quick-tap the hex heads, being careful not overdo it. Not too hard, but a couple of quick taps send shock waves & does wonders.

With slotted/screws the correct size screwdriver works well for tapping also. 75% of the time these methods work for me, you just need to be aware of not damaging the hardware or what it is attached to. If all else fails, I use channel locks gripping the head & carefully loosen.

I also have a set of "Met wrench" tools that are fabulous for hex heads that have been stripped, as it grips the flats & not the corners. They've never let me down.

CR
 
E

Eddie7045

.
Aug 16, 2006
281
Ericson 32 Oregon coast
There sure is a lot there to make me skeptical.

1st, I've been around mechanical stuff for over 50 years. I know that old habits die hard but to this day there are a lot of old timers will go to the WD-40 immediately in that sort of situation. It's not so much that that is the best way as I find it hard to believe that it would perform that poorly

2nd, if that were the case then why wouldn't somebody, or some company, basically mix up the ATF/acetone formula and market it.

Mind you, I wouldn't doubt that the ATF/acetone would work well and it could be an economical way to create large batches but who would need that much ?

On the preventative side, a machine shop owner I know says that Inox is superior to WD-40 in regard to corrosion protection. And I wouldn't put spark plugs in an engine without coating the threads with anti-sieze.
 
Chris Patterson

Chris Patterson

.
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
I was thinking Eddies number two thought earlier. I've read several times this thing about ATF/acetone mixture, and have also read other reports that said it was useless. I lean toward the latter for the reason that.......if it did work that well, why would PBlaster not simply change their formula to be based on ATF?

ALL of the penetrants would dearly love for their product to work the very best. It makes no sense on any bodies level to think these penetrant companies would think, "..well, we could put this additive in our product that makes it work well. Cheaper albeit, but we're going to stick with our inferior mixture because it doesn't really work as well..".

I don't know. I think I'll go clean out my holding tank with vinegar..
 
centerline

centerline

.
Mar 20, 2012
3,983
Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25 Salem, Oregon
Chris Patterson said:
I was thinking Eddies number two thought earlier. I've read several times this thing about ATF/acetone mixture, and have also read other reports that said it was useless. I lean toward the latter for the reason that.......if it did work that well, why would PBlaster not simply change their formula to be based on ATF?

ALL of the penetrants would dearly love for their product to work the very best. It makes no sense on any bodies level to think these penetrant companies would think, "..well, we could put this additive in our product that makes it work well. Cheaper albeit, but we're going to stick with our inferior mixture because it doesn't really work as well..".

I don't know. I think I'll go clean out my holding tank with vinegar..
Click to expand
I agree... this scientific test was done over 25yrs ago.... if you do an internet search, you can see the same results of it in posts on other forums dated 1990....
 
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