I have an '84 Hunter 34 and I sail SF Bay. The boat is not currently rigged for a spinnaker and I am considering an asym. mainly to use for club racing. They are quite popular around these here parts. The H34 does not have a bowsprit. I would like to hear from folks with experience with either or both of these on which one you like best and why?
Spinnaker racing, symmetrical or asymetrical?
- Thread starter markwbird
- Start date
So you want a bag of terror? Thats what my wife calls it. The asym is not much good going ddw but can be coaxed into a deep reach with good results. Yes, it would be good to have a bowsprit. When I was wandering the docks in Sausalito I noticed many boats with retractable bow sprits. I would love to have one. Should make flying the asym much easier. I have a sock for mine, which for single handing is a big plus. I would like to set up the boat for a symmetrical spin. but it means buying and rigging a lot more stuff to make it work.
I use an asym without a sprit. I have an ATN tacker, and a sock.
http://youtu.be/hH3LtLCVObU
On this one, go to 2:40 and then 8:40.
http://youtu.be/womCBpHI93w
I use the asym for light air so I can not use the engine, and still sail when the wind dies in the Chesapeake. I am not an experienced spinnaker handler, but with the asym, and the sock.....it is easy and fun.
Ben
http://youtu.be/hH3LtLCVObU
On this one, go to 2:40 and then 8:40.
http://youtu.be/womCBpHI93w
I use the asym for light air so I can not use the engine, and still sail when the wind dies in the Chesapeake. I am not an experienced spinnaker handler, but with the asym, and the sock.....it is easy and fun.
Ben
My wife is in the same camp with ours. We haven't flown our assym in years (except from the streetlight in front of the house this year when we washed it). Just be forewarned around here in the bay it seems there is always too much wind for us to adequately control it. The cause is that our boats are so tender they are overpowered very easily. We need more discipline I guess to not fly it above 10 knots when reaching. Or, I'm willing to admit, I'm just not that good with it perhaps. With that being said, to manage ours (Hood MPS) I rigged it to fly inside the forestay. I'm not racing so I wanted it to handle easily. I took a boom bale and attached that to the mast about 6-12 inches below the mast head crane. This was accomplished by drilling two holes on either side of the mast and running a 8" bolt through the bale eyes and the mast. I have a snatch block on the bale that can freely slide back and forth with an external halyard. There is no interference with the headstay. We hoist, and secure the tack to a block on the anchor roller assembly behind the roller furler. I have those roller beads on a cable that wraps around the furled jib. Depending on the angle of the wind, the tack can be eased and tightened with a line back to the cabin top winches. Gybing is easy inside the foretriangle although sometimes we'll blanket the sail, pull the sock down, gybe then redeploy. Again, its to suit the two of us. Don't try DDW, it won't stay filled and ended up wrapped around the forestay with this configuration. Our boats with swept back spreaders do better broad reaching anyway. I even tried holding it out with my fully extended whisker pole (22', 10' above the deck) but that wasn't very good. When coming up to a beam reach we had some spectacular round ups and it really wasn't that windy.
Maybe you can borrow one to try on your boat. Hate to see you spend a lot of $$ and not like it or find that around the SF Bay there are only a few times when it is of benefit.
Very hard to set and fly a symetrical spinnaker if single-handling. Because of this, I went with an A-Sym. Unlike Allan however, when I fly mine it is set in front of the head-stay. Tack-line is on a block set on a bail at the front end of the anchor roller. I can adjust the height of the tack as needed. I single hand most of the time. So, I use a sock which gives me easier control when setting and dousing. The 34 is a mast head rig, and the A-Sym is quite big. Mine is shoal draft, very tender boat and indeed it is easy to get overpowered with the A-Sym when the wind pipes up. A-Sym will not allow DDW so you will need to learn to gybe it properly. Not hard but can be tricky in shifting winds. Also, because of the swept back spreaders, the main has a tendency to blanket the A-Sym in very light winds and I generally get more speed when dropping it to help the A-Sym stay full. In that case, I can also get to very close to DDW because it stays full longer. Of course you need to trim accordingly and watch it constantly. By and large, I love mine and use it frequently but I do agree with Allan that borrowing one and trying it before spending the $$$ would help the decision. If you are lucky enough to have a friend with one with approximate dimensions for your boat, ask him out for a sail and tell him you'd like him to set it up and fly it on your boat. Trying it by yourself unless you've flown one before might get tricky. Good luck.
My ace flies just fine DDW without a pole. Running a tad by the lee keeps it full with no yawing. But then, I have a masthead rig with no swept back spreaders.
We have pretty light air here in the summer, punctuated by moments of terror when the afternoon thunderstorms blow up. I fly an old symmetrical because it came with the boat. Asy spins had not been invented quite yet! I have flown it alone.. well, me and Otto, but I really have to be comfortable with wind forecast before doing that.. I fly it mostly with wife aboard she does well with "driving under it" when I take it down. Note that in avatar, I didn't bother to take the main cover off since I knew I'd be on same tack most of the day.
Hey,
Will you be fully crewed or short handed? If fully crewed I would go with a standard symmetric chute. If short handed then go with the asym. The standard chute is more flexible and be used over a bigger wind angle than the asym, but you really need a crew to set, fly, gybe, and dowse it.
Good luck,
Barry
Will you be fully crewed or short handed? If fully crewed I would go with a standard symmetric chute. If short handed then go with the asym. The standard chute is more flexible and be used over a bigger wind angle than the asym, but you really need a crew to set, fly, gybe, and dowse it.
Good luck,
Barry
Lots of good advice so far.
Also factor in what your COURSES will be.
For pure W/L races, a symmetrical kite will be better going deep and more versatile adjusting for wind and course sailing angle in those type of races.
If you are doing distance (point to point) races, an asym is a good choice because it it better aerodynamically on a reach. And you can close reach with it without the mental pressure of a spin pole banging against your forestay.
But biggest factor will be crew. A couple can fly an asym rather easily with an AP. Gibing a pole with two is a practiced art.
Also factor in what your COURSES will be.
For pure W/L races, a symmetrical kite will be better going deep and more versatile adjusting for wind and course sailing angle in those type of races.
If you are doing distance (point to point) races, an asym is a good choice because it it better aerodynamically on a reach. And you can close reach with it without the mental pressure of a spin pole banging against your forestay.
But biggest factor will be crew. A couple can fly an asym rather easily with an AP. Gibing a pole with two is a practiced art.
Thanks for the good input
Thanks all. Great input. I want it for club racing so I expect that I will be fully crewed when flying the spin. When cruising I will not use the spinnaker. The racing courses typically include windward / leeward for shorter courses with reaches added in when the courses get longer. I do have concerns about the tenderness of the H-34 so I am inclined to choose a spin that is of a more manageable cut and size, whatever that may be. It sounds like the symmetrical is more versatile but needs crew to manage which is probably how I will use it. I just need to have the boat rigged for a spinnaker and find a pole. Cheers.
Thanks all. Great input. I want it for club racing so I expect that I will be fully crewed when flying the spin. When cruising I will not use the spinnaker. The racing courses typically include windward / leeward for shorter courses with reaches added in when the courses get longer. I do have concerns about the tenderness of the H-34 so I am inclined to choose a spin that is of a more manageable cut and size, whatever that may be. It sounds like the symmetrical is more versatile but needs crew to manage which is probably how I will use it. I just need to have the boat rigged for a spinnaker and find a pole. Cheers.
Have your sailmaker sew you a reaching spinnaker. It will be flatter, be narrower in the shoulders, and made from at least .9oz cloth. Easier to handle in breeze as well.
Two more cents...
I've flown an asym single handed on a small boat in light air with a sock to douse it with. No problems--no pucker factors!
It takes three of us to manage a large sym spinny on a 30 foot centerboard boat when racing. Gets really hairy with board up going down wind in shifting conditions!
Have regularly gone down wind in my H34 with just the 110 up doing six knots plus in medium air single-handed. Didn't feel a need for an asym.
I've flown an asym single handed on a small boat in light air with a sock to douse it with. No problems--no pucker factors!
It takes three of us to manage a large sym spinny on a 30 foot centerboard boat when racing. Gets really hairy with board up going down wind in shifting conditions!
Have regularly gone down wind in my H34 with just the 110 up doing six knots plus in medium air single-handed. Didn't feel a need for an asym.
