Catalina 30 rudder design

[George Da Porge]

I have a Catalina 30T. 1990. Went aground early in this past season and chewed up the bottom of the rudder. Rudder also has some signs of delamination in a couple areas, so I am looking at an overall repair.

I have seen some information about a more optimal rudder shape, both cross section (NACA 0012 airfoil) and profile (leading edge curves aft towards the bottom of the rudder). This reportedly improves weather helm, pointing ability and ease of maneuvering under power.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Anyone have any plans? I am not opposed to reshaping the rudder - I believe the most crucial tasks will be building a jig to hold the rudder in a proper position, and also aligning the rudder properly with the centerline of the shaft. I know I can also make a jig to use my router to create the NACA 0012 profile. And I can do it for a lot less $$ than a new rudder.

Or, I can just repair the rudder in its current shape.

Thanks in advance for any input/advice!

 

[Elysium_Van_Isl]

Hi,
That must have been quite the event to smack up the rudder! How's the keel look?? Or did you ground it stern-first?

I don't know about reshaping, etc but this guy has some phenomenal videos...one of which just so happens to be fixing up a rudder:
http://boatworkstoday.com/

Got any photos?

I need to take a crack at my own rudder situation this winter. I've been on the hard for a couple months now and there is a fairly heavy 'trail' of rust coming from the post, somewhere up in the stern sleeve.
I'm afraid to drop it and discover what horrors lie within.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Funny how this thread brought up some thoughts I've always had about the Catalina 30 rudder design.

I don't know about you guys, but I always thought the rudder had too small of a surface area causing roundup in over 15 KTS flying a 155. You know, when the boat begins it's roundup tendency to weather & turning the rudder has no effect.

I also bent my rudder abit in key West with a dragging anchor in a squall but, the rudder tube could be straightened. I got lucky there.

CR

 

[George Da Porge]

Hi, That must have been quite the event to smack up the rudder! How's the keel look?? Or did you ground it stern-first? I don't know about reshaping, etc but this guy has some phenomenal videos...one of which just so happens to be fixing up a rudder: http://boatworkstoday.com/ .

We should've never went aground where we did!!! We were just outside and inline with our harbor channel. I believe as we came down the face of a 2' - 3' wave, the trough was shallow and our wing dug right in. It took a couple hours before we got pulled off. We also needed to be spun around for the towing.

During the wait we wiggled several feet outside the channel. Anyway, when we finally were pulled off the rudder seemed to have hit a couple rocks. Keel is just fine. Pics of rudder to follow.

I drilled several holes into bottom edge and sides to drain water. Have a couple delaminated areas to fix. It also looks like I will need to fix the shaft-rudder interface. That concerns me the most - ensuring a good repair there that is perpendicular to the shaft and flat. With the rudder top sloped upward its difficult to get to the aft side of the shaft. Any ideas?

Thanks for the video link - I will definitely check it out.

 

[George Da Porge]

Here are some photos:

 

[Anonymous 121765]

George,

Hopefully you're insured. Your insurance adjuster should provide you with folks that can straighten the post if doable.

My guys were great.

CR

 

[George Da Porge]

George, Hopefully you're insured. Your insurance adjuster should provide you with folks that can straighten the post if doable. My guys were great. CR

Thanks Captnron - but I don't believe the post is bent. Did you see something in the pics that lead you to believe that?

 

[Anonymous 121765]

George,

On a bent rudder tube, not really pal, but I did not realize my tube had bent until they dropped the rudder.

I just wanted to make you aware of the possibility, just make sure this is not the case.

CR

 

[jrowan]

Nice pics George. At least you got your rudder out O.K., which can sometimes be the hardest part of the repair. If I were you, I would not risk cutting into or heavily modifying the existing rudder, as cutting into the core material, increases the risk of water penetration in the future, if or when your repairs delaminate. Why make the repair harder then it has to be? I would make sure the core is dry by drilling a couple of small holes at the base & look for any moisture weeping out. Then I would use West System epoxy to repair the rough & delaminated areas of the perimeter edges. Make sure you remove all of the bottom paint back to gel coat where you want the epoxy to stick, or it will not make a very good bond. I would also thoroughly seal the gaps that you have where the top of the rudder meets the rudder post tube, as that is a good place for water to penetrate. Good luck.

 

[George Da Porge]

Nice pics George. At least you got your rudder out O.K., which can sometimes be the hardest part of the repair. If I were you, I would not risk cutting into or heavily modifying the existing rudder, as cutting into the core material, increases the risk of water penetration in the future, if or when your repairs delaminate. Why make the repair harder then it has to be? I would make sure the core is dry by drilling a couple of small holes at the base & look for any moisture weeping out. Then I would use West System epoxy to repair the rough & delaminated areas of the perimeter edges. Make sure you remove all of the bottom paint back to gel coat where you want the epoxy to stick, or it will not make a very good bond. I would also thoroughly seal the gaps that you have where the top of the rudder meets the rudder post tube, as that is a good place for water to penetrate. Good luck.

Likely going to repair with shape as is. However, my primary concern is sealing the area where the post enters the rudder body. It is clearly not sealed. Seems like I would need to clean out around post to sound material and rebuild up. My main concern is how to get the interface smooth, flat, and perpendicular to the shaft. Any ideas? If this interface was the highest point of the rudder body it would be reasonably easy.

I understand the high density plastic ring that sits atop the rudder should be adhered to the rudder (with 3M 5200 or similar) (it's loose), but I don't want to rely solely on the 5200 for the complete seal.

 

[jrowan]

3M 5200 is indeed a permanently bonding material adhesive, so make sure you have things the way you want them before applying it, because to remove it is difficult later. As far as repairing & fairing your rudder edges, I personally like using West Systems epoxy repair kit, as its is easy to mix & apply, & remains flexible for quite a while, as it has hours of working time before it sets up. But once it hardens, it's harder then fiberglass & makes a very durable repair.

 

[Guts1236]

I know a guy that has a Erickson 35 and they came with a runner from a Erickson 32 which is actually too small for the 35 at least that's what my buddy said. He pulled the rudder out an extended it six inches and change the shape slightly. It's not hard to do he took some then bendable plywood clamped into the rudder and then poured the foam. Then shape the foam like you would a surfboard and use carbon fiber and resin over the new foam. There's different densities of foam and I can't tell you which density he is right now but if you do some research there's lots of information out there. It's not that hard to fix.

 

[Sanfelice]

This might help you out. Go to Hunter forum. Find boats menu at the top of the page. Look under Hunter 28.5 , modifications and you will find a 2 part thread on rudder repair. This is the site.

http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_kb&Itemid=267&cat_id=21&page=model&mn=28.5

 

[George Da Porge]

This might help you out. Go to Hunter forum. Find boats menu at the top of the page. Look under Hunter 28.5 , modifications and you will find a 2 part thread on rudder repair. This is the site. http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_kb&Itemid=267&cat_id=21&page=model&mn=28.5

Sanfelice - would you check this link please? I went to it and it shows several posts from different threads, but they are all disconnected from the threads. Thanks!

 

[Guts1236]

Here's a picture of the finished rudder a friend of mine did. He lengthened the rudder and change the shape slightly on his Erickson 35.

 

[Sanfelice]

Link works for me. Just scroll down to Foss Rudder. Two threads and a brief description of what the poster did.