Lives and boats lost in fast winter storm:
http://ktla.com/2014/12/31/harbor-p...-on-catalina-island-sheriffs-department-says/
http://ktla.com/2014/12/31/harbor-p...-on-catalina-island-sheriffs-department-says/
Avalon, Catalina Island Storm & Loss
- Thread starter Rick D
- Start date
So sad, all of the Harbor Patrol officers are the best. They are the most helpful and friendly around.
I can see how this can happen I've spent many a sleepless night riding that surge back and forth on a normal storm. Especially in the first two rows.
I understood that in the event of a severe Santa Ana they evacuate the boats to the other side of the island.
I can see how this can happen I've spent many a sleepless night riding that surge back and forth on a normal storm. Especially in the first two rows.
I understood that in the event of a severe Santa Ana they evacuate the boats to the other side of the island.
Not sure how they could do that, granting that Cat Harbor is the only real cove of any size on the backside of the Island (and the only one with moorings), and it would be 19 or 20 miles away by water.
What they actually do, depending on how full the harbor is at the time, is to rearrange the boats so that they tuck in as many as possible in the shelter of the breakwater, near the Casino. It's not great but definitely better than the moorings near the Green pier. They will also double up the moorings such that they will use the lines from two moorings to secure a single boat. Again, it depends on how many boats are in the harbor. It is often possible for them to do this in the winter months when the harbor is less full.
And yes, this is indeed a terrible tragedy. I have a close friend (and former student of mine) who works harbor patrol and is usually on that shift. When I heard the news the next morning that a (unnamed) patrolman had died, I immediately called his cell. I was so relieved when he answered! He was actually on patrol at the time I phoned him and had little time to talk, so I didn't want to bother him with too many questions. They are really hurting over this loss, as you would expect.
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Another Post Said...
...that it was hit by one of the run-away boats. The power boat to the left had her transom almost ripped off. Last "report" I read indicated eight vessels lost/severely damaged.
Mooring Lines
One report was that mooring lines were still attached but failed due to chafe or other reason. This boat lost her anchor platform. A trawler that went aground had less damage, and still had an anchor deployed and attached but it appeared the windlass had torn out of the deck. My suspicion is that the large dive boat drifting through the moorings was the prime cause of damage and mooring losses.
One report was that mooring lines were still attached but failed due to chafe or other reason. This boat lost her anchor platform. A trawler that went aground had less damage, and still had an anchor deployed and attached but it appeared the windlass had torn out of the deck. My suspicion is that the large dive boat drifting through the moorings was the prime cause of damage and mooring losses.
Anyone has any more info on Suzie Q or a link to the Facebook posts?
Rumor mill on another forum is the bow cleat failed and as usual the Hunter bashing is full-on.... Some real information would be helpful. Anyone know the owner? When it will be raised?
Rumor mill on another forum is the bow cleat failed and as usual the Hunter bashing is full-on.... Some real information would be helpful. Anyone know the owner? When it will be raised?
Who Knows?
You would think it would be something more than a cleat failure to sink it, even if the deck were holed. Note the forestay is intact. When she sank, she was oriented correctly in the harbor, leaving me to believe the bow was still secure. BTW, the larger moorings are to the mouth of the harbor, which means the 70 and 50 foot power boats that were beached had to drag through the mooring field.
When and if there is something definitive, I'll post it. Tend to doubt there will be tho.
A daughter-in-law posted to one Facebook page that she was told a bow cleat failed. In view of anchor platforms tearing out, windlasses pulled out of decks and mooring blocks dragging, it certainly wouldn't surprise me. However, an eye witness reported on another Facebook post that it and the power boat to port were both hit by one of the run-aways (See the photo earlier in the thread with the stern torn up).
You would think it would be something more than a cleat failure to sink it, even if the deck were holed. Note the forestay is intact. When she sank, she was oriented correctly in the harbor, leaving me to believe the bow was still secure. BTW, the larger moorings are to the mouth of the harbor, which means the 70 and 50 foot power boats that were beached had to drag through the mooring field.
When and if there is something definitive, I'll post it. Tend to doubt there will be tho.
Tragedy for the folks who died, their families, and for the community at Avalon. Evidently, according to NOAA Buoy 46025, the wind shifted around 1830 local time on the 30th from NW to NE in the space of about 10 min, then built rapidly to 22 kt, reaching 26 kt by 2100, and peaking near 27.6 kt by midnight. Protected from the NW, Avalon is fully open to the NE and minimally a 23 n.mi. fetch across the San Pedro Channel. The moorings in Avalon are very close together (rows are spaced close; individual moorings forming rows are close). There's precious little room to yaw without striking the boat(s) next to you, if one happens to be there. Yes; larger boats are toward sea, so if one breaks free it's bound to take others with it on the way to the beach. High wind was forecast by NOAA weather a couple of days in advance with a gale warning for the zone coming out on Tuesday, as I recall [which may have been reached]. I know; I was listening to the regular updates, we being on the boat ourselves earlier this week. Ran from MdR to Ventura Harbor on Monday/Tuesday.
Re: Who Knows?
Re: the Hunter-bashing because of some alleged cleat failure et al, apparently it only affects this particular, year, model and serial number, since it didn't affect the Hunter directly in front of the sunken 460 ;-0
Re: the Hunter-bashing because of some alleged cleat failure et al, apparently it only affects this particular, year, model and serial number, since it didn't affect the Hunter directly in front of the sunken 460 ;-0
i think that bashing thing is in another forum not hereRe: the Hunter-bashing because of some alleged cleat failure et al, apparently it only affects this particular, year, model and serial number, since it didn't affect the Hunter directly in front of the sunken 460 ;-0
I found a very interesting time lapse of the raising of Suzie Q. They raised the boat near the surface and bow high with airbags first and there appears to have been a lot of work done at the bow (see about 2:30) before they leveled the boat out and got a pump going. At about 3:30 the boat swings momentarily to port but it is hard to see what they did to the bow - maybe some temporary repairs to a hole near the waterline?
http://vimeo.com/116039754
http://vimeo.com/116039754
Just a follow up on this topic. I have had to delete a couple of posts outside of forum guidelines that were rude and not at all factual in this situation.
I have now spoken via phone with the owner (he's a member here and super nice guy) and he has confirmed that the cleat did in-fact depart from the vessel during the storm.
He stated the cleat had an approx 4" backing plate and it left a 4" +/- hole in the deck. He also stated that a boat next to him had the windlass and samson post ripped out during the storm as well. Swells were huge and snatch loads were a major factor on the short scope moorings in 7-8' seas. Only one cleat was in use at the time and it took all the load. It could have just as easily been the mooring pendant that failed, as happens most often.
After the cleat was torn from the deck she turned stern to the waves for a few hours until the stern mooring pendant failed, not the cleat. The boat then came broadside to another boat, and if I recall correctly was secured again. In the process the bow was beating on the stern platform of a power boat which eventually holed the bow of Susie Q and she ultimately sank.
I feel terrible for this owners loss and wish him the best in his search for a new vessel. I don't think there is huge panic level concern for Hunter owners reinforcing the cleat area, but it may never hurt to do that.. The owner of Susie Q. said that no matter what boat he buys he will beef up the bow cleats. I certainly can't blame him for this...
I have hopes that we can get some photos of the cleat area construction on the 460 which may help any owners who want to beef this area up with a visual reference point..
Let us also not forget or minimize the tragic loss of two lives during this storm.
I have now spoken via phone with the owner (he's a member here and super nice guy) and he has confirmed that the cleat did in-fact depart from the vessel during the storm.
He stated the cleat had an approx 4" backing plate and it left a 4" +/- hole in the deck. He also stated that a boat next to him had the windlass and samson post ripped out during the storm as well. Swells were huge and snatch loads were a major factor on the short scope moorings in 7-8' seas. Only one cleat was in use at the time and it took all the load. It could have just as easily been the mooring pendant that failed, as happens most often.
After the cleat was torn from the deck she turned stern to the waves for a few hours until the stern mooring pendant failed, not the cleat. The boat then came broadside to another boat, and if I recall correctly was secured again. In the process the bow was beating on the stern platform of a power boat which eventually holed the bow of Susie Q and she ultimately sank.
I feel terrible for this owners loss and wish him the best in his search for a new vessel. I don't think there is huge panic level concern for Hunter owners reinforcing the cleat area, but it may never hurt to do that.. The owner of Susie Q. said that no matter what boat he buys he will beef up the bow cleats. I certainly can't blame him for this...
I have hopes that we can get some photos of the cleat area construction on the 460 which may help any owners who want to beef this area up with a visual reference point..
Let us also not forget or minimize the tragic loss of two lives during this storm.
Yeah, there's no room in there to spread out even if one could add scope to the pendant (bow hawser by the diagram). The ones I've attached to can be as much as one-inch polypropylene; barely fits through my chock and does not stretch. Curiously, though, those cleats seemed to have serious backing already. Much more than on my Bavaria. Did the cleat really fail or did the deck structure itself fail? The cleat did not pull out per se--it pulled the deck out!! Right? I noticed that many of these newer boats do not have bow chocks. The hawser goes straight to the bow cleat over the rail. The load on the cleat could easily get sidewise in big conditions. Would that be a factor? On the Bavaria, the hawser leads to the cleat through a fwd chock. Thus, the load on the cleat is always fore-aft--never lateral. Could that be a factor here?
Thanks for the update.
According to the owner the cleat and backing plate ripped out of the deck structure. Most cleats are designed to have the load pulling along the length of the cleat. It is possible a side load may impart a different loading to the cleat than along its length. Considering I know of numerous Hunters that have ridden out hurricanes and Nor' Easters', on moorings or anchors, I suspect this one is not a typical failure that will happen with regularity..
I just dug this up from a Boat US Foundation study.
To deck-mount a high-load fitting like a cleat so that it's really sound and water tight, first strengthen the system by reinforcing the base. Use an under-deck pad twice the length of the cleat and one half cleat length across. On deck, use a pad about 25% longer and wider than the cleat. Use only stainless steel or bronze bolts (not screws) as recommended by the manufacturer, and stainless washers under the nuts to spread the load. Avoid locating cleats on soft-core surfaces like balsa-core. If it 's unavoidable, then the core material must be removed and reinforced before installation, a job that's generally best left to a professional.
With respect to other observations, more scope (as you pointed out) and a nylon rode [or chain snubber] that stretched would likely have prevented the damage and the accident. No one would ride out conditions seen in Avalon Harbor that day as described if given freedom and option about how to set one's own ground tackle. One of those [rare] situations where Murphy had his way.
I think close inspection of the deck by a qualified shipwright would reveal how [in what direction] it failed under stress. Be interested in hearing about it in the future!