I'm replacing my batteries and rewiring per MS's guidelines. I now have 2 6v's forward of the fuel tank. I like having the Starboard side of the fuel tank clear, that allows me to get in and out and work down there, so while I was down there I was thinking of placing the starter battery, Group 27, on top of the fuel tank. I would put a 1/2" piece of plywood under the battery and will be able to tie it down with straps hooking into the two holes which hold down the fuel tank ties. Would that be a reasonable location? Thanks! -Jon
H34 Starter Battery Location on top of the Fuel Tank????
- Thread starter PGIJon
- Start date
Jon,
Not a big fan of putting that weight on the plastic fuel tank even with the plywood. The weight will still transfer down the relatively thin sides (further loaded by strap tension). I was able to line up my three batteries (2 6 volt and 1 group 27) in that space. All were in plastic boxes. The starter battery was turned and placed first. The other two fit with their long direction running fore and aft. Later I cut a piece of Starboard as a cover for all the batteries that partially rested on the fuel tank. It served as a step for me to climb down into the dungeon without stepping directly on the batteries. Later I moved the 6 Volt batteries inside the salon.
Not a big fan of putting that weight on the plastic fuel tank even with the plywood. The weight will still transfer down the relatively thin sides (further loaded by strap tension). I was able to line up my three batteries (2 6 volt and 1 group 27) in that space. All were in plastic boxes. The starter battery was turned and placed first. The other two fit with their long direction running fore and aft. Later I cut a piece of Starboard as a cover for all the batteries that partially rested on the fuel tank. It served as a step for me to climb down into the dungeon without stepping directly on the batteries. Later I moved the 6 Volt batteries inside the salon.
Jon, Here is a picture of my remaining battery in the basement. Its a group 27 turned sideways. There was enough room to put the other two 6 volt batteries next to it. It did contribute to some additional lean to starboard, so I eventually moved them to the interior of the salon.
You can see (sort of) the piece of white material I screwed onto the bulkhead (back of the icebox). That served as a support for the flat piece of starboard that also rested on the fuel tank as a cover over the batteries. I could step down on it when I had to go down in there to service the flooded batteries pre automatic watering system. Now its just a maintenance free battery.
In order to re-connect the house bank from their new location, I ran two long 4 AWG wires behind the oven to a couple of power posts just below that white cleat. One is for ground (-) and the other is for positive (+). That way I just took the existing cables and the two new ones and combined them on their respective posts. I didn't have to re-route any other wiring. My charger, alternator and battery combiner relay also attach to those posts. I installed a 250 amp fuse right at the positive battery terminal.
You might consider the alternative location for your house bank next to the water heater in the settee. Much easier to service and closer to the centerline of the boat. And less trips down into the basement, especially hard when hoisting batteries down there.
Allan
You can see (sort of) the piece of white material I screwed onto the bulkhead (back of the icebox). That served as a support for the flat piece of starboard that also rested on the fuel tank as a cover over the batteries. I could step down on it when I had to go down in there to service the flooded batteries pre automatic watering system. Now its just a maintenance free battery.
In order to re-connect the house bank from their new location, I ran two long 4 AWG wires behind the oven to a couple of power posts just below that white cleat. One is for ground (-) and the other is for positive (+). That way I just took the existing cables and the two new ones and combined them on their respective posts. I didn't have to re-route any other wiring. My charger, alternator and battery combiner relay also attach to those posts. I installed a 250 amp fuse right at the positive battery terminal.
You might consider the alternative location for your house bank next to the water heater in the settee. Much easier to service and closer to the centerline of the boat. And less trips down into the basement, especially hard when hoisting batteries down there.
Allan
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Well, I left my starter battery forward of the tank and moved my two house batteries to the other side of the bulkhead so they are to be strapped against the bulkhead, allowing access to the shaft and through-hull. I wanted to keep the weight low and centered. I initially was going to put the house bank under the port settee, but the wiring run would have been unreasonable for engine starting.
Allan, Location next to the hot water heater would be great but the A/C unit also resides there... no room... I have installed several bus bars to hook everything together... Glad you mentioned the weight on the fuel tank... what if I were to build a stand on top of the so fuel tank with legs down either side of the tank. That way the tank would not bear any weight and I'd probably have room for 4 move 6v's. I could even open and access them from the aft cabin.
Splax do you have a picture of the location of your starter battery? My only concern is that I have the flux gate (or is that flux capacitor) for the autopilot in that area and that might throw it off.... but would it if there was no energy flowing from it????? Hmmmm.
Thanks.
Jon
Splax do you have a picture of the location of your starter battery? My only concern is that I have the flux gate (or is that flux capacitor) for the autopilot in that area and that might throw it off.... but would it if there was no energy flowing from it????? Hmmmm.
Thanks.
Jon
Jon, I don't have 6V batteries but 3 type 31 deep cycle 12V. One in front of the tank and the other 2 along side. The batteries numbered #1 are paralleled and the #2 is more or less a spare. My point is I can still go to the dungeon to do some work. Being overweight makes it tougher in and out but still do-able. My fluxgate is in the v-berth cabinet so can't answer your question but the Raymarine X-5 computer box is under the coaming in the dungeon as well as my SSB antenna tuner and I have not had any problems with either the SSB or the autopilot because of the proximity to the batteries. Also included is a pix of the access port I created in the rear bulkhead to facilate work around the fuel tank. Good luck with your installation.
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Jon...
Am still using the standard battery placement for #'s 1 & 2 ahead of the fuel tank. Charger is located on the back of the galley cabinet just above the outboard battery.
Autopilot is mounted to its own backer panel and that against the fore/aft starboard seat locker wall. The cabling was made long enough to pull the unit up to deck level, out of the pit, to be worked on if necessary. See pix.
Don't accept food or drink while down in the "pit"--it makes it quite difficult to squeeze back up out of there if you do!
Am still using the standard battery placement for #'s 1 & 2 ahead of the fuel tank. Charger is located on the back of the galley cabinet just above the outboard battery.
Autopilot is mounted to its own backer panel and that against the fore/aft starboard seat locker wall. The cabling was made long enough to pull the unit up to deck level, out of the pit, to be worked on if necessary. See pix.
Don't accept food or drink while down in the "pit"--it makes it quite difficult to squeeze back up out of there if you do!
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Jon,
Hadn't thought about the requirement for AC in your location. Never seen one before out here.
A structure over the fuel tank would make sense and set up for future expansion. Although, if you are considering 4 6 volts (like I have installed) you might want to go for it all at once as its not easy to expand an existing bank of two when the ages of the batteries become significantly different. With that much capacity you could start the engine off the house bank and only require a Group 24 battery as a backup starter reserve. Saves a little weight on that side.If you Google T-slotted aluminum, you may find it is a nice material to build a light weight, but really strong frame. There's various suppliers out there including surplus folks.
Allan
I've got (2) 6 volts on the starboard side of the fuel tank like Claude's photo shows. They do take up real estate but I don't currently store very much in the basement and I like them located there.
Another way to build a shelf over the fuel tank would be to add a ledger to the aft cabin wall as a support on that side, then you would just need to build legs on the starboard side.
Another way to build a shelf over the fuel tank would be to add a ledger to the aft cabin wall as a support on that side, then you would just need to build legs on the starboard side.
Thanks for all your great input.... Couple of questions
Claude... You mention you can still get down there... Where do you sit/squat while down there to work if you have those batteries along the Starboard hull? How does the aft cabin's cutout panel attach? I can see the 3 pieces of backing wood.
Allan... I like the idea for the T-slotted Aluminum... have you purchased any online? if so where? Did you design it yourself or use a CAD software? Will also need to anchor it. Definitely need to add the other 2 batteries ASAP so they match! Thanks
Charlie... Also a great idea to add it to the aft cabin wall if I do it with wood... But would probably still want/need some sort of support for that side since the weight of the batteries on the shelf would probably be in the neighborhood of 125 lbs. 2-6's and a 12.
Claude... You mention you can still get down there... Where do you sit/squat while down there to work if you have those batteries along the Starboard hull? How does the aft cabin's cutout panel attach? I can see the 3 pieces of backing wood.
Allan... I like the idea for the T-slotted Aluminum... have you purchased any online? if so where? Did you design it yourself or use a CAD software? Will also need to anchor it. Definitely need to add the other 2 batteries ASAP so they match! Thanks
Charlie... Also a great idea to add it to the aft cabin wall if I do it with wood... But would probably still want/need some sort of support for that side since the weight of the batteries on the shelf would probably be in the neighborhood of 125 lbs. 2-6's and a 12.
Jon, at 5' 6" I am an overweighted runt but still able to climb down there by squeezing myself down the opening with my legs resting on the boat bottom outboard of the batteries. I squat there to do whatever work needs to be done. I have to remember to take my belt out otherwise the buckle catches on the inside ledge and I'm trapped LOL ! As for the cutout panel I probably took the picture before installing the 4th piece of backing wood. Look at pix #4. I finished with white kitchen formica counter top I had left over and just screwed the pieces. The screws get hidden by the mattress and the top cover for the steering quadrant. The joints were eventually covered with screwed strips of 1/4" thick teak giving a nice look to the wall.
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Claude... Really nice job! Thanks for sharing!
What type of wood did you use? did you treat it in any way?
What type of wood did you use? did you treat it in any way?
You're welcome. 1/2" marine grade plywood. Always meant to treat it but didn't have anything with me at the time and was in a hurry to go sailing as the boat had been launched only days before. I figured what the heck the area is not prone to seeing water. Still untreated and looking good (from the dungeon side anyway) since 2009
Jon,
I was lucky to have worked in an industry that used that kind of aluminum extrusion for various partitions, frames, cabinets, etc. in cleanrooms. Since nothing lasted forever, there was always a pile out in the back when the factory was constantly being reconfigured.
I did a quick search on E-Bay and found quite a few options for purchasing the material inexpensively as well as the connectors, gussets, feet, etc. Its sort of like Tinker Toys, or Erector Sets for grown-ups.
You wouldn't need CAD to draw a frame up. The nice thing about this material is that you can actually cut it with a chop saw and carbide blade, just like cutting wood. You can be very precise and the cuts are very neat. Using angle connectors lets you build basic frames. The angles slide into the slots and you just tighten a couple of Allen screws to hold it real tight.
I used some when i changed my motor mounts and needed a spacer to make up the difference in height. (See picture) Nothing really constructed here, but its been in place for 14 years now.
Example of connectors...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8020-Inc-T-...708?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c93d64b1c
Allan
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Thanks for all that information... I sent in the specs for the table to http://www.faztek.net/ and for no cost, they will design it, send me 3D drawings as well as a Bill of Materials with what I need to put it together. I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks again... Obviously by looking at the mount, these must be pretty solid!
Thanks again... Obviously by looking at the mount, these must be pretty solid!
I have been following this because I would like to relocate mine as well. The PO had put 2 batteries in the aft locker. I am wondering about weight distribution and weather helm.
I've read several posts here that mention how sensitive weight in the stern of the H34 causes the bow to rise. If this is indeed true then I would think this would have an effect on weather helm
Weight distribution...
It's not weight in the stern that causes the bow to rise but the stern to "squat". At rest my H34 sits on its water line with a slight starboard heel (as most do). Underway under power, and the stern squats at least six inches of water up the transom.
This is why I haven't used the aft water tank (30 gallons times about 7 pounds = a lot of weight behind the rudder post). Putting batteries in the aft locker would weigh in at almost half that amount in and of itself. Add water and you've got a whole lot of drag. There has to be an affect on sailing helm from this.
MHO
It's not weight in the stern that causes the bow to rise but the stern to "squat". At rest my H34 sits on its water line with a slight starboard heel (as most do). Underway under power, and the stern squats at least six inches of water up the transom.
This is why I haven't used the aft water tank (30 gallons times about 7 pounds = a lot of weight behind the rudder post). Putting batteries in the aft locker would weigh in at almost half that amount in and of itself. Add water and you've got a whole lot of drag. There has to be an affect on sailing helm from this.
MHO
Re: Weight distribution...
Like Dan I generally don't use the aft water tank. Unless I'm cruising ! Then the aft locker gets full of stuff + the dinghy + the outboard + gas tank + anchors you name it !!! Of course she'll squat ! I try to minimize the squating by storing some of the heavier stuff not used too often in the locker under the vee-berths. I also store there a few cases of beer and pop. The anchor well is home to wash-down hose + 75' of 5/16 chain and 150' of rode. A 39 Lbs Bruce sticking out of the anchor roller and the windlass add weight to the bow. Heavier yes but a least better trimmed front to back. And yes when motoring like all H34 she gets 6"of water up the transom.
Like Dan I generally don't use the aft water tank. Unless I'm cruising ! Then the aft locker gets full of stuff + the dinghy + the outboard + gas tank + anchors you name it !!! Of course she'll squat ! I try to minimize the squating by storing some of the heavier stuff not used too often in the locker under the vee-berths. I also store there a few cases of beer and pop. The anchor well is home to wash-down hose + 75' of 5/16 chain and 150' of rode. A 39 Lbs Bruce sticking out of the anchor roller and the windlass add weight to the bow. Heavier yes but a least better trimmed front to back. And yes when motoring like all H34 she gets 6"of water up the transom.
