our boat had a force 10 propane heater installed when we bought it... it has worked fine for us this past year until a couple of weeks ago...
we took the boat up the river 30miles to bonneville dam... in the Gorge we encountered head winds of 45-50mph with gusts to almost 60 and the air temperature was around 40degrees, and after dark it dropped to 34. (the experience of it all is a whole 'nother story that i wont go into here, but it was fun and enlightening)
we have been at the dock in moderate winds with two space heaters running on medium in 29-30 degree weather, and been comfortable, as long as we had a fan running to keep the heat from accumulating at the roof... this is without using the force 10
even though the boat is air and water tight except for the companion way, we found that the force 10 is not enough heater for overnighting away from the dock with strong cold winds.... (we tied to a dock near bonneville, NOT on the anchor, due to the extreme winds).
so even though I think the force 10 heater may be adequate for real hearty sailors, and/or most weekenders who dont use their boats much away from the dock during the colder months, my wife has made it clear that we dont fall into that catagory, and has convinced me that it is NOT a good enough heater for her during the cold weather of the winter months on our boat.
the extreme weather doesnt slow either of us down, but unlike me, she needs to be warm to have any fun out there...
so after using the boat for one and a half winters, almost always on the hook somewhere,
I have decided on upgrading the heating system with something better than the propane heater.
I have been researching espar, wabasto and Wallas....all of them being forced air diesel heaters. (there are other names out there, but when it comes to boats, fires, and potential explosions or CO poisoning, I want to stick with a top brand marine heater to supply me with all the risks
)
I havent found too much bad to say about any of them on the internet, other than the need for servicing, and when repairs were necessary, the expense of the repairs on the espar and wabasto can be extreme. although for the most part, they are good dependable units.
I have had some experience with Webasto in the past and know they are good units, and I also found out its sometimes cheaper to buy another heater than it is to buy the replacement parts for the unit you already have...
Espar it is said can be a bit power(amps) hungry... but their customer service seems good.
Then there is the Wallas that I am considering...
the 30Dt at 12,500btu's has a bit more than twice as much output over what the force 10 propane unit is advertised as having.
it has easiest installation of any of the 3 units(espar, webasto, wallas)....
it has the least power consumption over a 24hr period, by a large margine...
it is the quietest of the three while running...
the kit has everything necessary for a full installation with thermostatic style controller included.
of all the sites ive seen and read, there are cases where both espar and webasto units have been replace by a wallas unit, and the owners were completley satisfied with the results, but ive never seen or read where the wallas heater was ever replaced with either a espar or webasto.... as in maybe the wallas heaters dont need replacing?
is there anyone here, in the northern climates that have experience with a wallas forced air heater that want to share their experience with it?....
or the webasto or espar?...
about the Force 10 unit... maybe a bit of a rant
the down side to the force 10 unit is that it has a low oxygen shutdown sensor. when this senses a 2% drop in oxygen, it shuts the unit OFF..... no more heat. not now, not in 10 minutes, or not in an hour, or even 2... you cant open all the hatches and ports, or place a fan on it to get the sensor to reset. the unit will reset in about 3 hours and only when it becomes so cold that you NEED heat.... but by then the cabin has cooled off so much it takes a long time to heat back up...
the SOLUTION to the cold problem is to fire up the stove top or oven... BUT as this helps solve the cold problem, it doesnt solve the low oxygen problem and only adds to it, so this is defeating the sense and purpose of having the oxygen depletion sensor on the force 10.
I purchased a new base unit in hopes that maybe it was a faulty O2 sensor in my valve, but the new base unit acted the same way.... Dickinson has an excellent return policy and they took the base back without any further questions after i explained to them why i didnt want it...
so its kind of a catch 22.... what is the point in having a heater that will shut off when the O2 levels get low, and you have to light the big stove with no sensors on it just to stay warm?.... or at the very least, have the hatch open so the oxygen can replenish itself while the heat escapes...
I believe in reasonable safety at all costs, but the force 10 propane unit is a contradiction of itself... its a heater that is so safe that it cant run safely in an area that is small enough to be heated by it, without shutting itself down because it thinks there is not enough oxygen in that small space.
I have been over this with Dickinson and they agree, but the force 10 was designed by Sig marine, not by them...
BUT.... Dickinson does have a trade in program for anyone who owns a force 10 to upgrade to the newer style "direct vent" furnace for about a $200 credit... I looked at the P12000.
trade in your old unit and get 50% off of list price of a new unit.
the new units have an enclosed firebox (with a large window) and are equipped with a blower fan for better heat distribution... all flue parts, backing plate and mounting hardware is included with it.
for me, I want more heat overall so im going with a forced air diesel unit... it is almost 6 times the cost, but there is no sense in being cold just because i want to use the boat away from the shorepower cord in the winter time....
we took the boat up the river 30miles to bonneville dam... in the Gorge we encountered head winds of 45-50mph with gusts to almost 60 and the air temperature was around 40degrees, and after dark it dropped to 34. (the experience of it all is a whole 'nother story that i wont go into here, but it was fun and enlightening)
we have been at the dock in moderate winds with two space heaters running on medium in 29-30 degree weather, and been comfortable, as long as we had a fan running to keep the heat from accumulating at the roof... this is without using the force 10
even though the boat is air and water tight except for the companion way, we found that the force 10 is not enough heater for overnighting away from the dock with strong cold winds.... (we tied to a dock near bonneville, NOT on the anchor, due to the extreme winds).
so even though I think the force 10 heater may be adequate for real hearty sailors, and/or most weekenders who dont use their boats much away from the dock during the colder months, my wife has made it clear that we dont fall into that catagory, and has convinced me that it is NOT a good enough heater for her during the cold weather of the winter months on our boat.
the extreme weather doesnt slow either of us down, but unlike me, she needs to be warm to have any fun out there...
so after using the boat for one and a half winters, almost always on the hook somewhere,
I have decided on upgrading the heating system with something better than the propane heater.
I have been researching espar, wabasto and Wallas....all of them being forced air diesel heaters. (there are other names out there, but when it comes to boats, fires, and potential explosions or CO poisoning, I want to stick with a top brand marine heater to supply me with all the risks
)I havent found too much bad to say about any of them on the internet, other than the need for servicing, and when repairs were necessary, the expense of the repairs on the espar and wabasto can be extreme. although for the most part, they are good dependable units.
I have had some experience with Webasto in the past and know they are good units, and I also found out its sometimes cheaper to buy another heater than it is to buy the replacement parts for the unit you already have...
Espar it is said can be a bit power(amps) hungry... but their customer service seems good.
Then there is the Wallas that I am considering...
the 30Dt at 12,500btu's has a bit more than twice as much output over what the force 10 propane unit is advertised as having.
it has easiest installation of any of the 3 units(espar, webasto, wallas)....
it has the least power consumption over a 24hr period, by a large margine...
it is the quietest of the three while running...
the kit has everything necessary for a full installation with thermostatic style controller included.
of all the sites ive seen and read, there are cases where both espar and webasto units have been replace by a wallas unit, and the owners were completley satisfied with the results, but ive never seen or read where the wallas heater was ever replaced with either a espar or webasto.... as in maybe the wallas heaters dont need replacing?
is there anyone here, in the northern climates that have experience with a wallas forced air heater that want to share their experience with it?....
or the webasto or espar?...
about the Force 10 unit... maybe a bit of a rant
the down side to the force 10 unit is that it has a low oxygen shutdown sensor. when this senses a 2% drop in oxygen, it shuts the unit OFF..... no more heat. not now, not in 10 minutes, or not in an hour, or even 2... you cant open all the hatches and ports, or place a fan on it to get the sensor to reset. the unit will reset in about 3 hours and only when it becomes so cold that you NEED heat.... but by then the cabin has cooled off so much it takes a long time to heat back up...
the SOLUTION to the cold problem is to fire up the stove top or oven... BUT as this helps solve the cold problem, it doesnt solve the low oxygen problem and only adds to it, so this is defeating the sense and purpose of having the oxygen depletion sensor on the force 10.
I purchased a new base unit in hopes that maybe it was a faulty O2 sensor in my valve, but the new base unit acted the same way.... Dickinson has an excellent return policy and they took the base back without any further questions after i explained to them why i didnt want it...
so its kind of a catch 22.... what is the point in having a heater that will shut off when the O2 levels get low, and you have to light the big stove with no sensors on it just to stay warm?.... or at the very least, have the hatch open so the oxygen can replenish itself while the heat escapes...
I believe in reasonable safety at all costs, but the force 10 propane unit is a contradiction of itself... its a heater that is so safe that it cant run safely in an area that is small enough to be heated by it, without shutting itself down because it thinks there is not enough oxygen in that small space.
I have been over this with Dickinson and they agree, but the force 10 was designed by Sig marine, not by them...
BUT.... Dickinson does have a trade in program for anyone who owns a force 10 to upgrade to the newer style "direct vent" furnace for about a $200 credit... I looked at the P12000.
trade in your old unit and get 50% off of list price of a new unit.
the new units have an enclosed firebox (with a large window) and are equipped with a blower fan for better heat distribution... all flue parts, backing plate and mounting hardware is included with it.
for me, I want more heat overall so im going with a forced air diesel unit... it is almost 6 times the cost, but there is no sense in being cold just because i want to use the boat away from the shorepower cord in the winter time....
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