Alternator upgrade

Jan 30, 2012
105
Catalina 36 Bayfield, WI
I am a new owner of a Hunter 28.5 with a Yanmar 2gmf. The alternator is bad. It is a Hitachi and I'm guessing 35 amps. The PO purchased a 55 amp Hitachi alternator and included it with the sale. He said the small alt had a hard time keeping up so he wanted to upgrade. The problem I have, is the case it a little larger and it wont clear the bottom tensioner bracket. I've checked online and marine suppliers show the 35 amp alt. for $200.00. Has anybody else had this problem and is there a place I could buy a different bracket for the large case alternator? Thanks.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,075
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Hitachi/Yanmar Alternators: (by Maine Sail)

Some alternators though, such as those made by Hitachi and found on Yanmar diesels, are dumber than a pound of beetle poop. Actually, to the alternator, they are pretty smart but to your batteries and the speed of charging they are flat out stupid. Why?

Hitachi alts with dumb regulators, and some others, limit voltage but also reduce voltage based on alternator temperature. This is a self protective feature installed in the internal dumb regulator to prevent the alternator from cooking itself. Remember voltage is the pressure that allows more current to flow. So, if we reduce the absorbtion voltage, then we also reduce the current the alternator is supplying.. The battery simply will not accept the same current at 13.4V that it did at 14.4V and as a result the alternator will run cooler. What do you suppose this does to your batteries over time.......?

The problem is that when cold you will get 14.3V to 14.4V out of the Hitachi but as the alternator heats up the dumb regulator begins to reduce the CV/voltage limit based on the alternators internal temperature. It is not uncommon to find a Hitachi alternator at 13.4V when hot. This is REALLY, REALLY DUMB....

If you have a dumb regulator, and notice the voltage dropping, it is likely a temp compensated dumb regulator. Get rid of it or plan to buy new batteries more often.

If you have a temp compensated alternator or a Hitachi alternator on a Yanmar you really are in dire need of external regulation if deep cycling a larger battery bank.

This is from:

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=125392

and this, too:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...d-smart-regulator-instal-question-125843.html
 

braol

.
Apr 16, 2014
348
Hunter 27 Rebel 16 Great Lakes Naval Base, IL
I agree with Stu. I don't know much about external regulation, but I DO know that a H28.5 should use nowhere near 35 amps...unless you're running an airconditioner from an inverter while the engine is off. I'd say stick with the stock sized alternator, unless you can find a direct replacement unit that fits properly. If you're concerned about your energy use get LED interior lights and LED running lights (no need for an LED steaming light...you only use it when motoring anyways). I have LED's and my electrical draw is REALLY low.
 

pateco

.
Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
Does anyone know of a drop in replacement for the 35 amp Hitachi used on the Yanmar 2GM that would provide more amps, and be more reliable temperature wise.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,832
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Try

Try looking on E-Bay,I looked on E-bay and the # matched for the 60 amp
alternator but I have not had a chance to put it on yet.
Nick
 
Nov 22, 2011
1,259
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
Try looking on E-Bay,I looked on E-bay and the # matched for the 60 amp
alternator but I have not had a chance to put it on yet.
Nick
Might want to search the archives before you do that. I seem to recall a post not long ago from MaineSail warning about alternators sold for Yanmars engines on E-bay that left a great deal to be desired.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
First things first. What size battery bank are you trying to charge?
upgrading the alternator is only effective if the batteries can take the increased amp rate.
If memory serves, the alternator max output in amps can be as large as 35% of the battery storage capacity in Ah. That would mean that a 400 Ah bank would be able to accept a 140 amp alternator and a 100 Ah bank would only be able to accommodate a 35 amp alternator. Putting a 1000 amp alternator on a 100 Ah bank would not really accomplish anything that the 35 amp alternator would as the battery internal resistance would limit the 1000 amp alternator to 35 amps during bulk charging.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,075
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Might want to search the archives before you do that. I seem to recall a post not long ago from MaineSail warning about alternators sold for Yanmars engines on E-bay that left a great deal to be desired.
Alan, that's exactly what I posted in Reply #2, above (or below depending on how you have your browser setup:)).
 

braol

.
Apr 16, 2014
348
Hunter 27 Rebel 16 Great Lakes Naval Base, IL
Anyone have luck with an off-the-shelf automotive alternator?
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Might want to search the archives before you do that. I seem to recall a post not long ago from MaineSail warning about alternators sold for Yanmars engines on E-bay that left a great deal to be desired.
Two summers ago I had a customer with an eBay "Hitachi" replacement that physically melted down on him. Unfortunately it happened in a very remote area of Newfoundland...:doh:A days travel, two days waiting to travel, lots of expletives and only to find out that actual Hitachi parts did not even fit into the "Hitachi" knock off case. Lucky for him he found a shop in St. John that had a used Yanmar / Hitachi alt that could be made to work by adding a stator tap to it . The owner of the shop took the eBay alt and tossed it into the round file, right in front of him. Would not even keep it for spares...;) I found that quite telling...

Seems the replacement had only a voltage regulator but lacked the internal temp gradient/voltage step down that the real Hitachi has. Long and short is these Hitachi's were never meant to drive large amounts of current thus they are self protected by a voltage gradiant which is built into the genuine Hitachi regulator. Cheap Chinese knock offs may "look-a-like" but often don't perform-a-like....

That owner now has a Balmar system that is set up to handle the loads he imparts on it........
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,832
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
good

I had very good luck with a local starter and alternator repair shop,they
had new starter for way cheaper than Yanmar dealer price.
The repair shop told me they don;t repair the Yanmar starters because parts
hard to get but had a new replacement starter and been working good.
I would think they would be able to help with alternator so look for local shop,
years ago I always had good luck with rebuilds for my trucks,
Nick
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Question here....

Two summers ago I had a customer with an eBay "Hitachi" replacement that physically melted down on him. Unfortunately it happened in a very remote area of Newfoundland...:doh:A days travel, two days waiting to travel, lots of expletives and only to find out that actual Hitachi parts did not even fit into the "Hitachi" knock off case. Lucky for him he found a shop in St. John that had a used Yanmar / Hitachi alt that could be made to work by adding a stator tap to it . The owner of the shop took the eBay alt and tossed it into the round file, right in front of him. Would not even keep it for spares...;) I found that quite telling...

Seems the replacement had only a voltage regulator but lacked the internal temp gradient/voltage step down that the real Hitachi has. Long and short is these Hitachi's were never meant to drive large amounts of current thus they are self protected by a voltage gradient which is built into the genuine Hitachi regulator. Cheap Chinese knock offs may "look-a-like" but often don't perform-a-like....

That owner now has a Balmar system that is set up to handle the loads he imparts on it........
...if you use an external regulated alt and a balmar external regulator will that stop the requirement of the internal voltage gradient ?
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
...if you use an external regulated alt and a balmar external regulator will that stop the requirement of the internal voltage gradient ?
I generally don't like to convert Hitachi's to external because by the time you have done a "proper" set up the alternator is so limited in output, so as to not exceed 220F, that its output is now pretty diminutive.

With a Balmar external regulator you have:

Belt Manager - This is current limiting and allows the alternators max output to be limited to keep the alt safe and prevent it from over heating. It can also be used to prevent burning up belts. It was formerly called "Amp Manager"...

Alternator Temp Sense - This is your back up insurance policy to the current limiting and prevents the alternator from running too hot. It does this by limiting the field voltage/current not by reducing voltage to the batteries like the stock Hitachi does...
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,243
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
I generally don't like to convert Hitachi's to external because by the time you have done a "proper" set up the alternator is so limited in output, so as to not exceed 220F, that its output is now pretty diminutive.

With a Balmar external regulator you have:

Belt Manager - This is current limiting and allows the alternators max output to be limited to keep the alt safe and prevent it from over heating. It can also be used to prevent burning up belts. It was formerly called "Amp Manager"...

Alternator Temp Sense - This is your back up insurance policy to the current limiting and prevents the alternator from running too hot. It does this by limiting the field voltage/current not by reducing voltage to the batteries like the stock Hitachi does...
this is an external regulated alt from hatchie not a converted one ....they came in the Z cars
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
this is an external regulated alt from hatchie not a converted one ....they came in the Z cars
You will want to do a proper burn in & set up to determine it capabilities on your own vessel. If you have small batteries this likely won't be an issue but as banks grow and/or you go GEL or AGM then the alt can very easily get over worked. The "Z" cars, or any car, almost always has a battery at or near 99% full and the alt basically powers headlights, heater fan etc... This is easy work compared to bank that is deeply cycled.

This is from my article on LiFePO4 batteries but I set up all high performance alternators in the same manner.

Alternator Set Up & Load Testing:


It is not just good enough to program the regulator and walk away. Every alternator will respond differently to the field wire from the regulator. Proper set up will lead to a long alternator life and an alternator that can survive the abuse an LFP (or large lead acid) bank throws at it.


How do I do this? It is not difficult.


You will need the following:


#1 An on-board inverter capable of exceeding the alternators current capability, usually 2000W or more, or a portable inverter capable of at least 2000W or more. Even the cheap Harbor Freight inverters can work OK for this set up.


#2 A good restive AC load such as a heat gun, hair dryer or portable heater. If the alternator and inverter are large enough you may need two of these devices.


#3 A remote temperature sensor attached to the alternator case that can be read with the engine room 100% closed up and sealed tight. Most DVM's from the likes of Extech, Fluke, UEI etc. offer a remote temp probe.


Hot load testing and set up:


Step #1 - Connect temp sensor to alt and close engine room


Step #2 - Run the boat under load, with the inverter loaded down by the heater or AC source, and at cruise RPM for at least 30 minutes, but preferably more. Do this while monitoring alternator temp. If temp spikes above 220F put the heater on low or turn off AC load. When it cools turn it back on.


Step #3 - Return to dock or mooring and leave the motor running at fast idle with AC load live.


Step #4 - Keep inverter/AC load running. This load at the battery terminals should still be in excess of alternators physical capability. There should be a net loss from the batteries not positive current flowing into them.


Step #5 - Continue to monitor alternator temp, does temp exceed 225F at fast idle?


Step #6 - If so, adjust Balmar Belt Manager down to level #1, monitor temp.


Step #7 - Continue load testing and monitoring temp, did the alt still go over 225F?


Step #8 - If so move to Belt Manager Level #2


Continue this process until the alternator stays below 220-225F loaded to max output in YOUR hot engine room.





TIP: I start at Belt Manager Level #4 and work my way up. Most alts require level #3 or #4.

TIP: Some engine rooms may require a bilge blower sucking air from the top of the engine compartment. Preferably aimed at the alternator. This helps remove the warmest air and pulls it away from the alternator. Properly installed engine room temps can be lowered by 30 degrees or more.


NOTE: Balmar's Belt Manger used to be called Amp Manger in previous regulators. It is the feature you use to current limit your alternator and prevent it from cooking itself. Older regulators used a different step/limit method with more "steps"...
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,075
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
The MC-612 and 614 regulators also have a feature called Small Engine Mode which can be used to limit the output to 50% with a toggle switch, just like the alternator temp sensor does. It's in the manuals.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
The MC-612 and 614 regulators also have a feature called Small Engine Mode which can be used to limit the output to 50% with a toggle switch, just like the alternator temp sensor does. It's in the manuals.
The newer regulators use adaptive temp compensation and it is no longer a 50% cut when alt temp is exceeded. Alt temp compensation now drops in steps of 10% of field and goes back up in 10% increments. Alt temp cuts are no longer a 50% cut. Small engine mode still works by shorting across the temp sensor terminals.
 

jtm

.
Jun 14, 2004
313
Hunter 28.5 Dataw Island, SC
I have a H28.5 with 2GMF engine, 2 batteries, dual switch, separator and promariner (dual) 12AMP charger which has dynamic distribution/charging feature.

I upgunned the alternator to 50 AMP about 10 yrs ago and have had no problems. My batteries, M24 and M27, have performed very well and survived over the last 4-5 years since getting the promariner. I keep a 5W solar charger on each of them when I'm not on the boat.

I bought the 50amp from Mack-boring in Union NJ and it was a either a plug replace or they had the crescent bracket as I dont recall any difficulty in installing the alt. I dont have the make model of the alt at the moment and if I replaced the bracket I'd have the old one attached to the old alt - which it isnt.
I can try look for it next time down on the boat in 2 weeks or so. message me and I'll try get that info and a picture of the bracket to you.

Jim