inspection a sailboat purchase

[pupluv]

Hi fellow sailors!

I'm brand-new here. I just won a 1975 Ericson 27-2 in an eBay auction for $869 with supposedly a main and foresails in "excellent" condition and an 8.5hp Toshiba outboard.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171464905758...:MEBIDX:IT

With this kind of auction, the buyer cannot inspect the boat until winning it. It can be rejected then if the buyer chooses. Presumably, I will meet the prior owner, who donated it to the charity, at the same time.

I would appreciate any and all suggestions for what I should especially look for on this old girl. Perhaps someone local would be kind enough to accompany me on my inspection?

I have a modest amount of sailing experience but not much experience with maintenance and inspection.

I'm in southern California. My "new" Ericson is a slip in Long Beach

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

An E 27 was our first boat. Can offer a few things to look for with the caveat that any boat bought so cheaply raises a few 'red flags' about what you might be getting into any of which can far exceed the purchase cost. Before proceeding, you would do well to have it surveyed first.

The chainplates and specifically the locations where they attach to the deck are a weak link in terms of water intrusion and subsequent core rot.

It's a heavy boat for the waterline being a semi-full keel boat. The 11 Hp inboard we had was severely underpowered. I can imagine an 8 HP outboard more so.

No keel bolts to worry about but moisture in the wood lined cockpit lockers can cause delamination on the gel coat exterior and cockpit sole.

 

[higgs]

You could hire a marine surveyor to accompany you, but it would probably cost upwards of $500 which I doubt you want to pay for a boat under 1k. I would say to walk the decks and cockpit sole looking for spots that flex under your weight. Even a little probably means a wet deck core which can be a big job depending on where it is and how wide spread. Start the engine, which if an inboard, is probably an Atomic 4. Good engine and if starts up and runs smooth can keep running for years. I would check the dipstick looking for water in the oil. I am sure others will think of more.

 

[rardiH36]

Certainly the very best DIY inspection guide is "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" by Don Casey.

Here is a link to the Kindle version on Amazon. Better if you have time to secure a physical copy.

http://www.amazon.com/Inspecting-Sa...sr=8-1&keywords=inspecting+the+aging+sailboat

I had my copy in hand when deciding whether to buy my very first sailboat (1980 36' Hunter) in 2007. I had no prior experience with sailboat ownership. I still own and have had no regrets buying my boat. The boat was on the hard so I could see a lot. I spent an afternoon looking into everything by my lonesome with the book.

One does not (or shouldn't) buy a 36' boat without an independent surveyor providing a professional assessment. When I got his report, he found only a couple of items that I had not already identified from the book. And he also got wrong a few things that I called him on.

Another important item is: Don't be rushed with your inspection. If it takes all afternoon and even into the evening take the time. Often on these forums, and even it cropped up just yesterday in fact, are recounts of how even almost free boats can turn out to be much more expensive than a newer or better maintained boat as the new owner keeps discovering that more and more and more really expensive repairs and upgrades are needed.

A lot of course depends on how DIY handy you are. If you do not have already a garage full of tools and DIY skills that you have used to repair or rebuild just about everything in your house, then taking on ownership of 44 year old sailboat probably isn't a good fit. Also working on boats takes time, often lots of time. Factor that into your decision if you are still working and can't get to the boat frequently.

Don Casey's guide will assist you making the assessments.

 

[pupluv]

How does one inspect the chainplates when they are glassed in like they are on the E-27-2?

Thanks!

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

How does one inspect the chainplates when they are glassed in like they are on the E-27-2?

Thanks!

You can visually inspect the portion under the decks by looking in the cubbies on either side. You cannot, however, see all of them nor can you see the hidden part. You can get a good idea of the condition by sounding the deck around the plates to hear any moisture problems. Looking at how well they are sealed can also reveal any potential issues. Moisture meters, particularly in the hands of a novice are often misleading and even more so when used around metallic materials so that trick in useless.

 

[31seahorse]

How does one inspect the chainplates when they are glassed in like they are on the E-27-2?

Thanks!

The "deck squish" test mentioned above is a good indication. Moisture in the hull will probably not sink your boat, but repairs are in the future. If there is moisture within the decks it will have come from a place where something goes through the deck with fasteners. "Sounding" the fiberglass can be done by tapping the hull and deck with a light plastic hammer or the plastic handle of a medium size screw driver. A sharp, solid sound will help indicate a dryer area and a dull, thunk sound will indicate more moisture and delamination of the fiberglass from the core. Plywood core that is mushy will not respond well to adding epoxy. The core needs to be removed which is a big job and messy, but not impossible.

If you can move the boat to your property or a very cheap storage spot the cost of keeping the boat while you work on it be less. Lots of work time goes into the rehab of an old boat.

I have always been wary of buying a boat from the donation sites because you can not (in most cases) inspect the boat prior to bidding. :cry:

Best wishes with the inspection you do now and with work you do on the boat.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Well, she looks clean and she is floating nicely in her slip! I'd have to say that's a pretty good sign for a 27' boat that is priced under $1,000. You don't have to be over-critical of the faults you may find given that the base price of the boat is so cheap. Look for signs of leaks which might be affecting the deck core, which might include brownish streaks near penetrations or hull to deck joints or a brownish coloration in the bilgewater, if there is any. If the bilge is dry, that would be a very good sign.

How the boat smells inside the salon can also tell you a lot about the overall maintenance. Try to distinguish between repairs that are necessary for safety vs repairs that are less urgent. If you can buy a boat at that price and it can be sailed immediately, you are well ahead of the game! From the photo, that looks like it may be the case. You possibly found a seller who is just looking for a good home for his well-loved boat.

 

[bffatcat]

Inspecting an old boat

Time for my 2c First you need someone that knows something about sailboats to give it a cursory look Like are the keel bolts rusty, or is the boat sitting on its lines or listing to one side or another If the answer is yes to either I would walk. Next you said Toshiba 8.5 Are you sure you dont mean Tohatsu. In any case this most likely outboard replacement for a junked atomic 4. You can get by with an outboard on the transom but you will need a bigger one This boat is too heavy for an 8 hp, Look in the engine compartment to see if the Atomic 4 is still there If it is its going to cost to remove and junk it. Finally look the boat over in general. Is the rub rail dinged uo. look at the ports for heavy leakage and other signs of general neglect. If the boat passes all of the above Its time to hire a surveyor ON the east coast for a 27 ft boat about $300 On the west coast I dunno One more thing walk on the deck Is it solid Does it move or squish? If it does its going to cost more than $900 to fix it . be careful! good luck

Good luck

 

[Calif. Ted]

It floats and claims to be complete, I couldn't see the ad but can't help wonder what would constitute a deal breaker for you ? Your slip is probably $250-300/month so you'll be spending about $3000/year just to park it. Most boatyards here charge by the day for DIY and it's higher than a slip. It might be a fair deal but by this time next year you will have invested at least 5 grand in expenses just to maintain whatever it is now, no major repairs or improvements included.
And a survey here would be about $300 also, plus $180 for a one hour "lunch time" haul out where they leave the boat in the slings while they eat.

 

[pupluv]

deal breaker

It floats and claims to be complete, I couldn't see the ad but can't help wonder what would constitute a deal breaker for you ? Your slip is probably $250-300/month so you'll be spending about $3000/year just to park it. Most boatyards here charge by the day for DIY and it's higher than a slip. It might be a fair deal but by this time next year you will have invested at least 5 grand in expenses just to maintain whatever it is now, no major repairs or improvements included.
And a survey here would be about $300 also, plus $180 for a one hour "lunch time" haul out where they leave the boat in the slings while they eat.

A deal breaker would be a major structural problem like excessive blisters, chainplates, bad bulkheads, very bad standing rigging, bad outboard, signs of prior sinking, etc. I don't want to do any major reconstruction work.

This kind of auction one just never knows until the boat is paid for, then inspected. If material defects, then get money back.

You don't have to remind me about the cost of a slip. I think that's the major reason folks give up boats. $10 a month per foot is the absolute minimum. It only makes economic sense if you're going to sail often. I'm semi-retired and can sail every day. My problem is getting a friend to crew because I live almost an hour from Long Beach so I would like to build up a group of local people who would sail with me.

 

[pupluv]

inspecting

Time for my 2c First you need someone that knows something about sailboats to give it a cursory look Like are the keel bolts rusty, or is the boat sitting on its lines or listing to one side or another If the answer is yes to either I would walk. Next you said Toshiba 8.5 Are you sure you dont mean Tohatsu. In any case this most likely outboard replacement for a junked atomic 4. You can get by with an outboard on the transom but you will need a bigger one This boat is too heavy for an 8 hp, Look in the engine compartment to see if the Atomic 4 is still there If it is its going to cost to remove and junk it. Finally look the boat over in general. Is the rub rail dinged uo. look at the ports for heavy leakage and other signs of general neglect. If the boat passes all of the above Its time to hire a surveyor ON the east coast for a 27 ft boat about $300 On the west coast I dunno One more thing walk on the deck Is it solid Does it move or squish? If it does its going to cost more than $900 to fix it . be careful! good luck

Good luck

Thanks for your very helpful suggestions. I don't know about the outboard - - if it's just to get in and out of the slip the 8 might be OK - - if I plan to power-sail , you're absolutely right, I'll need an outboard twice as big. No idea if the original Atomic 4 is still installed (from the original brochure, it looks like inboard power was optional). If it's there and a junk pile, that might be a deal breaker.

 

[pupluv]

inspection

Well, she looks clean and she is floating nicely in her slip! I'd have to say that's a pretty good sign for a 27' boat that is priced under $1,000. You don't have to be over-critical of the faults you may find given that the base price of the boat is so cheap. Look for signs of leaks which might be affecting the deck core, which might include brownish streaks near penetrations or hull to deck joints or a brownish coloration in the bilgewater, if there is any. If the bilge is dry, that would be a very good sign.

How the boat smells inside the salon can also tell you a lot about the overall maintenance. Try to distinguish between repairs that are necessary for safety vs repairs that are less urgent. If you can buy a boat at that price and it can be sailed immediately, you are well ahead of the game! From the photo, that looks like it may be the case. You possibly found a seller who is just looking for a good home for his well-loved boat.

You day: "You possibly found a seller who is just looking for a good home for his well-loved boat." That's my fervent hope. An eccentric millionaire who had extensive maintenance done and couldn't be bothered to sell it so he donated it to the charity that auctioned it.

Thanks for the tips about deck joints especially. Supposedly this Ericson had one of the best but she is 40 years old.

What made the boat a bargain are the sails (claimed in "excellent condition") and the working outboard. Out here in Los Angeles one can buy sailboats of this vintage very cheaply but almost always the sails are shot.

 

[pupluv]

chainplates

You can visually inspect the portion under the decks by looking in the cubbies on either side. You cannot, however, see all of them nor can you see the hidden part. You can get a good idea of the condition by sounding the deck around the plates to hear any moisture problems. Looking at how well they are sealed can also reveal any potential issues. Moisture meters, particularly in the hands of a novice are often misleading and even more so when used around metallic materials so that trick in useless.

Thanks. I appreciate your advice very much. I have read de-masting storied from bad chainplates on Ericsons.

 

[pupluv]

You say: "No keel bolts to worry about but moisture in the wood lined cockpit lockers can cause delamination on the gel coat exterior and cockpit sole."

Thanks very much for this. I agree she will be underpowered with 8hp but it may be enough to get in and out of the slip. What would you consider adequate? 15 hp? 20 hp? I'll probably have to strengthen the transom.

 

[Scotty C-M]

While I agree with the above comments, I would like to add a few ideas.

The Ericson 27-2 is a great boat. Sure it's not a fancy new yacht, but boy, those plastic clasics hold up well. The basic design is really nice.

Are you handy with tools? Do you know how to sail? If yes to the first question, then you are a big step up. If not, it's a great boat to learn on. Same thing for the second question.

If it's rotten, I can see how this could be a bad idea, but if it's at all decent, it could be an inexpensive starter boat for you. In either case, good luck!!

 

[Picflight]

Pm me when you need help working on your boat or need crew.

 

[pupluv]

handy with tools

While I agree with the above comments, I would like to add a few ideas.

The Ericson 27-2 is a great boat. Sure it's not a fancy new yacht, but boy, those plastic clasics hold up well. The basic design is really nice.

Are you handy with tools? Do you know how to sail? If yes to the first question, then you are a big step up. If not, it's a great boat to learn on. Same thing for the second question.

If it's rotten, I can see how this could be a bad idea, but if it's at all decent, it could be an inexpensive starter boat for you. In either case, good luck!!

Thanks for your advice.

I'm average handy I guess but I'm an old guy and I want to sail, not spend time working on a boat. That's why the inspection is so important to me. Any major repairs needed are a deal-breaker.

 

[marke14]

If the purchase price is so low anyway, adding another $500 to the price for the survey to potentially buy a nice old boat at an unbelievable price or save X 1,000s of dollars on fixing stuff, seems like a decent deal to me.

 

[Coyote]

You should also consider the "investment" in a survey as a potential sales tool down the road, if, for any reason you need or want to sell your boat --
you can always show where and the condition you started your project - as a baseline,

best of luck,
Coyote