B343 Gennaker set up

[Ken_Smith343]

I have a 2006 B343 that is new to me this year. It came with Neil Pryde Sails. Furling main, furling 140% Genoa and a Gennaker, complete with sock. I have downloaded the NP pages on the tuning as well as the "The Cruising Spinnaker Revisited" by Tim Yourieff. These tuning guides have been very helpful in learning how this boat sails. After reading the spinnaker guide and from my limited knowledge of spinnaker set up, I am a bit confused. I rigged her at the dock and my question is around the tack location. The Gennaker halyard exits at the mast head and threads through an eye at the forestay (fractional rig). My boat has a flip up style pad eye located approx. 8-10" aft of the forestay. The Gennaker rig came with the sheets, tack line, blocks and the tack parallel beads to wrap the furled Genoa. The guide states (as I understand it) to use this forward pad eye for the tack block, but that puts it behind the forestay so when you let the tack up 3-5 feet it will be on one side of the rolled Genoa, which will then rub on it when on one tack or the other. This does not seem logical to me. I would think the tack block should be forward of the forestay. I would not want to tack the Gennaker inside the forestay, as that seems troubling. I do have a bow anchor roller that has a hole in one of the supports that a dock mate attaches his tack block to, but the above mentioned guide does not site this. Anyone have any advice or comments to clarify? I did see Bob Pattison on a post, perhaps you could comment. I would appreciate it.

BTW. New to this forum and am impressed. Thanks to all for participating.

Ken

 

[justsomeguy]

snip- The guide states (as I understand it) to use this forward pad eye for the tack block, but that puts it behind the forestay so when you let the tack up 3-5 feet it will be on one side of the rolled Genoa, which will then rub on it when on one tack or the other. This does not seem logical to me. I would think the tack block should be forward of the forestay. I would not want to tack the Gennaker inside the forestay, as that seems troubling. I do have a bow anchor roller that has a hole in one of the supports that a dock mate attaches his tack block to, but the above mentioned guide does not site this. -snip Ken

The padeye that's aft of the forestay could be used as a place to mount a block for your sock downhaul control line to be led back to your cockpit.

That's about all I've got, except to say I'd also prefer the spin's tack to be forward of the forestay, and welcome to SBO!

 

[DougM]

I attach a block to an open hole in the anchor bracket, run the tack line through it and back to a block on the padeye aft of the forestay. That keeps the tack forward of the bow pulpit somewhat. My tack line is long enough to reach all the way back to the cockpit so that I can adjust the tack up or down if necessary.

Short of adding a bowsprit, that's about as good as it gets.

 

[scottthardin]

I use the hole on the port side of the anchor roller which is just a bit forward of the forestay. It isn't easy to gybe the asymm forward of everything but it can be done. The trick seems to trim in the lazy sheet as it is about to become the active sheet. The asymm sheets are quite long for this reason.

Good suggestion to rig a block to the padeye for hauling down the sock. I gotta think about trying that idea.

 

[Gunni]

That hole in your bow anchor roller is for the tack block. You can route the tack line back the deck to the cockpit but I find it convenient to cleat it off on the bow cleat. You do not want you sock control lines (there are two) forward on deck, they need to be back to the mast where they won't tangle with the sail or sheets.

 

[justsomeguy]

snip- You do not want you sock control lines (there are two) forward on deck, they need to be back to the mast where they won't tangle with the sail or sheets.

I've found it somewhat difficult (when the breeze pipes up) to haul down the sock on my little boat, if the direction of pull is any further aft than about halfway between the forestay and mast. Uphaul, not a problem.

And if the spin is gybed forward of the forestay, no tangles should result, n'est-ce pas?

 

[Jackdaw]

That hole in your bow anchor roller is for the tack block. You can route the tack line back the deck to the cockpit but I find it convenient to cleat it off on the bow cleat. You do not want you sock control lines (there are two) forward on deck, they need to be back to the mast where they won't tangle with the sail or sheets.

Hmm Not really..

The best place for them is on the foredeck just aft of the forestay (like on the bow cleats. This position allows the bell to roll over the forestay when the sail is gibed. If the bell cannot go over, the head of the sail has a very hard time filling. Cleating it too close to the mast can cause this problem. Here our asym was hoisted on starboard but is flying free on port.

 

[Gunni]

Hmm Not really..

The best place for them is on the foredeck just aft of the forestay (like on the bow cleats. This position allows the bell to roll over the forestay when the sail is gibed. If the bell cannot go over, the head of the sail has a very hard time filling. Cleating it too close to the mast can cause this problem. Here our asym was hoisted on starboard but is flying free on port.

I assume you are talking about the sock ring...once you run it up the asym you only need nominal tension on the sock lift line, and none on the down so it easily deflects - but then you don't appear to have a spinnaker halyard gantry to keep the halyard well forward of the forestay. After set, tying the sock control lines aft to a mast cleat (loosely) will save you a world of hurt should your spin wrap the forestay during a bad gybe.

 

[Jackdaw]

I assume you are talking about the sock ring...once you run it up the asym you only need nominal tension on the sock lift line, and none on the down so it easily deflects - but then you don't appear to have a spinnaker halyard gantry to keep the halyard well forward of the forestay. After set, tying the sock control lines aft to a mast cleat (loosely) will save you a world of hurt should your spin wrap the forestay during a bad gybe.

No, no gantry as that's rare on fractional boats. As for the position, the best video I've ever seen on the topic (from North) does it this way, and was the place the North rep recommended to us when he delivered the sail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAzEc1UTaw

That being said, if your mast location is working, roll with it! I'd guessing it more about good technique then absolute line position.

 

[Jackdaw]

To the OP:

The problem will the anchor roller is that it does not project far enough to keep the tack line clear of (ripping stuff off!) the bow pulpit. If is DOES extent that far, it likely needs support from below to keep it from being damaged by the upward pressure on a tight reach. Most of the new boats with hard points on longer rollers have a fixed SS strut down to the bow.

We are going to replace our cruising sprit, and use a custom made anchor fitting when we race with our asym. From a sister-boat.

 

[weinie]

I've heard mixed things about keep the control line for the sock attached forward near the forestay. Some people claim it will keep the sail from wrapping around the forestay.

I tend to believe that it is just one more thing for the kite to get fouled up on. I tie mine off at the mast where I can get to it easily if poop hits the fan...especially when I'm single handing. Never had a problem with the hoop going around the forestay in gybes. But I do leave just a tad bit of slack in the line for that reason.


Also, I've found outside gybes better when you don't want things to get snagged up on the bow pulpit when you don't have a sprit/pole. Just keep an eye on that lazy sheet

 

[weinie]

OP,

That padeye is probably for the tack line...but not for the foward end. It's probably meant to be used a fairlead to lead the line back to the cockpit.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Our 37 has the hole in the anchor roller bracket as well and the dealer recommended that we use that for the tack block. We've put the block on there and it works alright. The main problem we have with it is that the block is just low enough that on port tack the tack line comes off at an angle low enough that it can chafe on the anchor itself. We've considered adding a wire pendant to attach the block to the bracket so that it can rise a little higher and let the line clear the anchor.

 

[BigEasy]

Ken,
Glad you brought this topic to light. I also have an '06 Ben 343 that is equipped with an asymmetrical. Believe it or not, I haven't used it yet! I have to reroute the spin halyard thru the eyelet type fitting atop the forward aspect of the mast. And, I must admit, I am a bit intimidated by this sail. I have limited experience with symmetrical spinnakers poled out and was onboard with an experienced crew.
I reviewed the genneker schematic on page 40 of the 343 owner's manual. Apparently, the tack line is run thru a single block that is attached to the deck padeye behind the forestay and is cleated off on one of the forward mooring cleats. I suspect that you could also run the tack line back to the cockpit instead. However, it is clear in the drawing, that the tack line is not attached to the hole on the side of the anchor roller. With my lack of experience with this sail, I am not implying that it the best setup method; however, it is the method that is depicted in the owner's manual.

 

[Ron20324]

...Apparently, the tack line is run thru a single block that is attached to the deck padeye behind the forestay and is cleated off on one of the forward mooring cleats.... that the tack line is not attached to the hole on the side of the anchor roller....quote]

On my B323, the hole in the anchor bracket is the one I use. I have the OEM spinnaker assembly, and it did include a padeye for the spin tack, but I can't imagine using it for the tack. The tack pennant runs outside of the pulpit, the best arrangement as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Ken_Smith343]

Thanks all for your comments. I shall take them all into consideration. I have watched the North Sail video a few times, but never really caught the bit on where they recommend to tie the sock lines. I'll have a go both ways to see how I feel. I do want to have the tack line back at the cockpit, so I will get another block to use as a fair lead on the pad eye and put my tack black on the anchor roller hole.

Again, thanks for all the responses.

 

[BigEasy]

Ron,
I agree with you. It seems that the anchor roller attachment would be a more robust attachment point for the tack line vs the small pad eye on the deck. You are obviously using your gennaker and the anchor roller attachment works for you. Just out of curiosity, check out your owner's manual to see how the factory set up is depicted. Glad to know that your setup works. When I finally try mine, I will at least know that I can use the anchor roller setup.

 

[BigEasy]

Ken,
When I watched the North video, it appeared that they used a deck padeye between the forestay and mast to secure the sock lines. I really need to check out the padeyes on my boat. I am not 100% sure; however, I think that there is a deck padeye on the bow just aft of the forestay attachment, ahead of the anchor locker door, and perhaps another deck padeye further aft. On the 343 owner's manual schematic (page 40), there is only one padeye forward of the anchor locker and two aft that are just forward of the genoa winches.

 

[Gunni]

To the OP:

The problem will the anchor roller is that it does not project far enough to keep the tack line clear of (ripping stuff off!) the bow pulpit. If is DOES extent that far, it likely needs support from below to keep it from being damaged by the upward pressure on a tight reach. Most of the new boats with hard points on longer rollers have a fixed SS strut down to the bow.

We are going to replace our cruising sprit, and use a custom made anchor fitting when we race with our asym. From a sister-boat.

The First models have very different anchor rollers than the Oceanis models. On the Oceanis the anchor roller assembly is much more robust, webs down both sides of the deck joint, extend further forward, and are more than strong enough to carry a spinnaker tack oad. On a First, I would want a nice little extendable spit, properly backed under deck.

 

[Joe2954]

2006 343.
I haven't flown mine for a few years due to old age and bad joints. However I did use the hole on the anchor roller and tied off to the port mooring cleat. When snugged up, the tack did hang up on the running light once or twice.
I clipped the sock lines to a caribiner on the life line within reach of the cockpit so I could launch from there and adjust the sheets quickly. My halyard is run back to the cockpit through a clutch to the gennaker winch on the starboard cabin top.
I considered adding a clutch on the mast to help in lowering the sail from the foredeck when singlehanding which is the majority of the time.
With the sock line on the lifeline I could start it down but always had to go forward to complete. My sock leaves several feet at the bottom exposed so you have to cleat the sock downhaul if you are not going to drop it immediately.
I also would unfurl a few feet of the genoa and trim it tight to reduce wraps.
By yourself it can be a real fire drill flying the sail, however Otto was of great assistance during jibes unless I overshot and the boat rounded up too far and took off. Hard to recover from without dumping the sheet and making a mess. Also, only answer for wraps is getting someplace quiet and working it back out.
I always had problems trying to keep two sails full so usually furl the main to a small hankie, which means it is not handy for blanketing the gennaker.
My recommendation - sail it with a friend that doesn't mind getting yelled at (definitely not a current spouse).
Joe