Suggestions for 12V wiring on port side of cabin

[jonelli]

So, I'm ALMOST done wiring up my boat-theater system. (Please, no comments on your philosophy of sailing with modern technology :naughty: )

I was going to use an inverter installed behind the back seat cushion on the port side for the TV, and I even tested it out using the cigarette lighter port on the breaker panel. But tapping into a 12V leg on the port side of the boat has too much of a voltage sag for the inverter when the TV comes on and the inrush current hits it.

So, I think my only practical solution is to run a heavy gauge 12V line to that side of the boat. That's a LOT of 8 gauge marine wire, and gets expensive quick.

Does anybody have any other creative suggestions? I am still going to try a slightly bigger inverter in case by chance it can handle it, but I have my doubts. The TV, when running on an inverter, only actually pulls a couple of extra amps.

Thanks!

 

[hvbaker]

So, I'm ALMOST done wiring up my boat-theater system. (Please, no comments on your philosophy of sailing with modern technology :naughty: ) I was going to use an inverter installed behind the back seat cushion on the port side for the TV, and I even tested it out using the cigarette lighter port on the breaker panel. But tapping into a 12V leg on the port side of the boat has too much of a voltage sag for the inverter when the TV comes on and the inrush current hits it. So, I think my only practical solution is to run a heavy gauge 12V line to that side of the boat. That's a LOT of 8 gauge marine wire, and gets expensive quick. Does anybody have any other creative suggestions? I am still going to try a slightly bigger inverter in case by chance it can handle it, but I have my doubts. The TV, when running on an inverter, only actually pulls a couple of extra amps. Thanks!

Best to put inverter close to batteries and then run 120V extension cord. At least that is what the installation directions that came with my inverter said.

 

[jonelli]

Yep, did some testing, and found that it just can't handle the voltage drop at the far end of the 12V line even with a bigger inverter.
Tested it again at the breaker panel sucessfully, so it looks like I have to find a place near the batts to put an inverter and then I can run some 16gauge wire around the boat as an extension cord.

I'm still sure if I ran 8gauge wire around the boat, it would work, but it's more effiicient and cheaper to run 16gauge.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Probably too late to suggest a 12 volt TV ? Mine has a built in DVD and I use a flat panel antennae with a usb powered signal amplifier.

 

[philwsailz]

Probably too late to suggest a 12 volt TV ? Mine has a built in DVD and I use a flat panel antennae with a usb powered signal amplifier.

I would go the 12-volt tv route as well...

 

[Stu Jackson]

That's a LOT of 8 gauge marine wire, and gets expensive quick.

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/ancor-marine--primary-wire-by-the-foot--P009_274_001_007

With tax, $1.25 per foot. Let's say you have 10 feet either way, 20 foot total, double that to even 50 feet = $62.50.

You spent: What? on your TV SYSTEM. C'mon...

 

[Scotty C-M]

Ditto about the placement of the inverter. My specs called for it to be within 10' of the batteries. Also it must be fused, and an off switch should be installed in case of a failure in the unit. Can you wire your inverter into the 110 circuit of your boat? If so, it has to have a fail-safe switch so that you don't have shore power on at the same time as the inverter. Also isolate the water heater (if you have one) so that it does not run off the inverter. Lots of details, but when it's done, the inverter is really efficient and easy to use.

 

[jonelli]

I've thought about all of it:
12V TV
High Power inverter
Running lots of heavy wire.

Here's my dilema: I have everything I need already to complete my setup including the TV with built-in DVD (non 12v) mounted on the bulkhead, just not a clean way of powering it.

I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars to make it work. Some day I may in fact do one or both of the above. I'd like a 12V/110 icebox too. But, for now I just want to make what I have work with as little investment I can without being totally stupid about it.

I have a list of other things that are more important than spending another $300-400 on a TV, like Bimini tops, etc....

A 12V TV is over $300 and I don't see how it would be any different for my wiring issue (inrush would be problematic using existing 16 gauge 12V wire) except take out the inverter. I'd still have to run heavy gauge wire from the breaker panel to the front of the boat, through the head, under the settee and up the wall to the TV. That's about 40 feet. I was looking at duplex 8 gauge wire, WM is $3/ft, about $120, plus the TV, and miscellaneous, I'm at $500 to replace a TV that I already have the works fine for what I want to do.

A high power inverter would be awesome, but those are also $400 plus the installation of extra stuff as Scotty C-M said to convert the entire AC system. Someday, it would be cool to do that, but not right now.

So, I'm left with the choice of putting the inverter near the breaker panel and running dedicated "small" 110V wiring around the boat to the TV, or run really heavy gauge 12V wire around the boat so I can put the inverter where I originally wanted it. But the second option is not very efficient for power. it could still sag quickly and the TV will stop working.

I'm thinking about splitting the difference between the two. Maybe the best solution would be to run heavy enough wire that COULD support a 12V TV (I don't know yet what that is for a 40 foot run) and use it with my inverter to send 110 to the TV I currently have. I think right underneath the nav table in the empty space between the quarter berth and cupboard (where your legs would be if you were sitting at the table). It should be close enough to the breaker panel to work, and I'll just run 12 gauge 110V duplex wire to the TV if that is enough to someday power a 12V TV.

I'm really curious though for some of you that have 12V TV's. What does your RMS current meter show when the TV turns on? How much of a spike do you get? Maybe the newer 12V TV's are better at it now?
I found this online and it looks pretty good. 45Watts:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BCS1EM2...=UTF8&colid=5IJGQE9WKDG&coliid=I3FOP1W6D6SQ9U

 

[philwsailz]

22"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005TPOZ1Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1410350816&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70

 

[philwsailz]

19"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B006OIWEHE/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1410350891&sr=8-3&pi=SY200_QL40

 

[kito]

My only question is why you didn't just go with a separate Blu-Ray player to run off your inverter instead of a built-in dvd player? I have yet to find a tv combo with Blu-ray. Seems a shame to have 1080p and have to watch standard 480i movies on a dvd player.

 

[Chief RA]

You need to learn more about electricity before installing anything. Long DC runs on an inverter are more than expensive: they are DANGEROUS! Fire risk is the problem. DC legs draw about 10 times more current than AC wiring does on an inverter application, so be careful! Your DC TV analogy is not correct as a DC TV only draws no more than DC 5a. Chief FCC lic# 1890

 

[Calif. Ted]

The cigarette lighter outlet I installed for power has a 5 amp inline fuse, the power cord itself has what my ancient eyes believes is a 3AG inline fuse so current draw is minimal.
I've had a couple small inverters and find the cooling fans annoying. In 1994 I bought a 8 foot camper with a 12/110 volt or propane refer ($1100), a propane forced air furnance ($600) and a propane water heater (300). It always seems ironic that I can't that kind of convenience and efficiency in a 32 ft. boat.

 

[jonelli]

Mr. Chief, Thank you very much, but I know plenty about electricity. I don't want to start an argument, but your point should be made clear for people that don't know plenty about electricity:

An inverter CAN provide 400 Watts or more (>30Amps) and that's what you would be pulling through all the DC Wiring, and if it's not properly wired, it can overheat, etc.

A TV whether it's 110 or 12V PULLS THE SAME CURRENT (roughly). So, whether I'm using an inverter or not, I'm still only ever going to pull the same 45Watts or so. But, if I had an inverter, and something went wrong with the TV and it all of a sudden tried to pull too much current, the inverter would not stop it, it would allow it to pull 400Watts if it wanted (30amps). So then other problems could follow. With a 12V TV, you are running it off a 5amp fuse, so if the TV fails, you blow that fuse quickly at 5 amps and nothing bad happens.

But the problem with your logic is that there are a whole bunch of items on a boat that pull 7-20 amps at 12V DC already (water pumps, macerators, windlass motors, etc) over very long runs. So, I don't see the difference in safety if everything is wired properly for its rated current draw.

The 110V TV I have pulls less than 30Watts DC/12V while on ON AN INVERTER. I have measured it.

@Kito - Sorry, I only meant to say that it happens to have a DVD player. I don't really plan on using it, but its convenient to have if someone wants to throw in a DVD and I would likely consider buying a TV combo over a non combo if I were to buy another one. it's just a bonus rather than something I sought out.
I'm actually running a WDTV Live media box (12V) with a USB hard drive full of movies.

 

[jonelli]

I ended up putting the inverter under the lip of the nav table and running 14 guage wire around to the TV with 110V and everything is happy.

With everything "on", TV, streaming box, sub amp, lights, VHF, music playing loudly, and everything I could think of, I'm showing 6-7 amps RMS on the current meter. With TV off and no music, just lights, I'm at about 2 amps or so.

I discovered while i was doing wiring in the breaker panel, that the main 110 AC line coming in was bad and broke off the terminal to the main breaker. It looked charred, like it was barely making connection for some time. Good thing I found it. Re spliced it, made sure there was no tension on it, and its good to go again.