Old bottom paint

Jun 6, 2013
10
Oday 22 CT Shoreline
My 1980 22 has a layer of red paint below the waterline. It's a flat paint that rubs off fairly easy but I have no idea what it is. I assume it's some kind of ablative. If I want to put a new coat on top do I have to worry about compatibility?

I'm good for this season but might want to paint in the fall.

Any ideas?
 
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
What fstbttms said. What I did was sand the bottom smooth taking the oppurtunity to fix any big pox then go over it with a quality (read expensive) bottom paint, at least 2 coats. First season I used a hard epoxy which worked fine in my lake, last time I used an ablative because I was worried about buildup and I hate sanding the bottom. Use a real respirator when sanding, not one of those dust masks.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
In general, ablative paints all go over other ablative paints. These paints are designed to slough off, exposing new biocide.

So called hard bottom paints such as VC17 or Pettit Vivid generally require removing old bottom paint and painting fresh.

If you're going to the trouble of stripping, sanding, or media blasting old paint back down to the gelcoat, you may consider applying an epoxy barrier coat to limit water intrusion into the gelcoat, and help prevent osmosis (blisters, pox, etc.) and then paint with your preferred bottom paint. If you do go this route, make sure you use the recommend de-waxer - improperly removed, or not removed, mold release wax stays around on gelcoat for a very long time, and will ruin all your hard work.

The theory of ablative paint is that it will wear down and won't build up. In practice, I think it wears mostly unevenly, and periodically you'd want to strip it down and start over, depending on how fast you want your bottom to be. Or how perfectionistic you are, etc.

Many folks paint an initial, contrasting color of anti-fouling paint, and then finish colors over that. When the initial color starts to show through, then they know it's time to repaint.

Last year, I painted 1 coat of Bottomkote NT over existing ablative, which may or may not have been Interlux based on the PO's recollection. I noted that the waterline was especially blotchy before I painted, and the Bottomkote mostly wore off the waterline similarly. This year, I painted 2 coats of Pettit Hydrocoat SR about 2 roller widths down from the waterline (10" or so,) and 1 coat on the rest of the boat. Application instructions recommend 2 coats, but 1 quart won't cover 2 full coats. I'm hoping the SR will prevent the brown slime that is common in our lake, and any anti-fouling seems good enough to prevent briozome formation (jelly globs.) We'll find out in October!
 
Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
In general, ablative paints all go over other ablative paints. These paints are designed to slough off, exposing new biocide.

So called hard bottom paints such as VC17 or Pettit Vivid generally require removing old bottom paint and painting fresh.
Ablatives do not "slough". They ablate. Sloughing paint is a different animal. Further, neither VC17 nor Vivid are hard paints. Examples of hard paints are Petitt Trinidad or Interlux Ultra. VC17 is a thin film paint and Vivid is a hybrid ablative. Most actual hard paints are compatible with ablatives. That means one can go over the other without removal of the previous paint.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Thanks for setting me straight, FastBottoms. I'm always looking to learn new stuff. Paints get confusing. It's not like when I helped my Grandfather paint under the boat, when I was old enough to do it reasonably well, but still small enough to fit :D

How different is sloughing from ablating? I guess sloughing paint requires water movement, whereas ablating just kinda incrementally falls off on it's own?

Given that you could put hard paint over ablative, would you really want to?

I figure I never give harder paints much mind, because I keep the boat on the trailer in the winter, and I wouldn't want the anti-foulding to deactivate, or require sanding before launch.
 
Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
Ablatives wear away at (like a bar of soap) at a controlled rate as the boat moves through the water, in theory constantly exposing fresh biocide. Sloughing paints release their biocide in an uncontrolled manner and are amongst the worst polluters still available. Sloughing paints are ancient technology and are therefore not used much anymore.
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,941
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
From personal experience, the one MAJOR thing to NOT do when painting hte bottom is to apply a "vinyl-based" paint over anything except another vinyl-based paint. I think the teflon paints like VC and VC-17 wil ldo the same...... vinyl-based paints will strip the old finish off leaving large bare patches. I made that mistake on my old Widgeon the first full season, and regretted it as the season went on and barnicles were covering the bottom!

I would think there is a good chance ,based on the description of the old paint rubbing off pretty easy (is is like a powder?) that the boat may have been painted with an old-fashioned sloughing paint (Interlux brand RED HAND is one of those paints and I used to use it on my small dinghies because, well...... it was the least $$$ of any bottom paint).
 

tcoday

.
Aug 30, 2014
4
Oday 23 Dark
Here is a good one. The guy I just got my boat from had the bottom done properly as was recommended to him, but "did not like the texture" so he painted it over with Home Depot house paint. Now what do I do.
 
Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
Here is a good one. The guy I just got my boat from had the bottom done properly as was recommended to him, but "did not like the texture" so he painted it over with Home Depot house paint. Now what do I do.
My guess is you get to strip the hull down to gel coat and start all over. Contact the manufacturer of whatever product you want to use for a definitive answer however.
 

tcoday

.
Aug 30, 2014
4
Oday 23 Dark
My guess is you get to strip the hull down to gel coat and start all over. Contact the manufacturer of whatever product you want to use for a definitive answer however.
Thanks for the input. I was afraid of that. That's what west marine told me.
 
Sep 30, 2013
3,582
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
Here is a good one. The guy I just got my boat from had the bottom done properly as was recommended to him, but "did not like the texture" so he painted it over with Home Depot house paint. Now what do I do.

Go back to that guy's house and punch him in the face.