Hello forum, first post. I'm 24 from NY. I currently sail an Escape Mambo. It's a plastic sunfish looking boat. I'm getting pretty good with it going around my very shallow bay with 10-15 mph winds so I figured I would start looking for an upgrade to work on this winter. I'm scheduled to take sailing lessons in 3 weeks so I don't know much of the lingo yet. Anyway, I found a 1970 mariner that has been sitting for a few years. But the owner sais it's complete ready to sail, just needs a good cleaning. I never bought a boat before so I came here to get your opinions on this boat and what I should be looking for. I always dreamed of owning an oday 25 but for $300 I figured this might be a nice stepping stone. Thoughts, opinions?
Upgrading sailboats, mariner
- Thread starter dwdrums801
- Start date
How will you take it to water so that you can test it?
Step the mast and install the sail on a calm day and see if they are missing anything.
Is there an engine?
I suspect you need about $ 10,000.00 to make it water ready.
It is a sturdy and well made boat. Have fun.
Step the mast and install the sail on a calm day and see if they are missing anything.
Is there an engine?
I suspect you need about $ 10,000.00 to make it water ready.
It is a sturdy and well made boat. Have fun.
Drums,
My first suggestion is to check out the "Mariner Class Assn." website. Dues are dirt cheap and the information is worth 10x's the cost.
Much of the information on the site is available without being a member.
https://mariner.clubexpress.com
The Mariners are still very popular and parts are available from a number of sources.
Manufacture began in 1965, [I think] and they are still made almost 50 years later, with few changes by Stuart Marine, and go for about $24,000 new. A well proven design to be in production that long.
I think there are more members of the assn. now than when O'Day stopped manufacture in 1978, [again, I think]
A few things to look for is any sign of water intrusion into the arch under the mast. this usually comes from a poorly sealed mast step, [where the mast sits on the cabin top], or cracks in the top next to the mast step.
Also the condition of the centerboard. They are cast iron and can rust to a considerable degree, however, other than the aggravation of removal, most can be repaired with average do-it yourself skills.
You can "fix it up" for $10,000, [if you are looking for fairly pristine] or you can make it presentable and safe for far less.
A place to look for inspiration is one of the members website,
http://www.mariner1922.com
He documents the restoration of his Mariner.
I've had mine for 3 years and they are great little boats. This past winter I trailered mine from Maryland to the Keys, and spent 2 weeks on her.
For the size, a very capable craft.
Robj
p.s. Mine is a 1970 as well. I paid $600 and it looked only a little better than the one you are looking at.
My first suggestion is to check out the "Mariner Class Assn." website. Dues are dirt cheap and the information is worth 10x's the cost.
Much of the information on the site is available without being a member.
https://mariner.clubexpress.com
The Mariners are still very popular and parts are available from a number of sources.
Manufacture began in 1965, [I think] and they are still made almost 50 years later, with few changes by Stuart Marine, and go for about $24,000 new. A well proven design to be in production that long.
I think there are more members of the assn. now than when O'Day stopped manufacture in 1978, [again, I think]
A few things to look for is any sign of water intrusion into the arch under the mast. this usually comes from a poorly sealed mast step, [where the mast sits on the cabin top], or cracks in the top next to the mast step.
Also the condition of the centerboard. They are cast iron and can rust to a considerable degree, however, other than the aggravation of removal, most can be repaired with average do-it yourself skills.
You can "fix it up" for $10,000, [if you are looking for fairly pristine] or you can make it presentable and safe for far less.
A place to look for inspiration is one of the members website,
http://www.mariner1922.com
He documents the restoration of his Mariner.
I've had mine for 3 years and they are great little boats. This past winter I trailered mine from Maryland to the Keys, and spent 2 weeks on her.
For the size, a very capable craft.
Robj
p.s. Mine is a 1970 as well. I paid $600 and it looked only a little better than the one you are looking at.
10 GRAND!!!! Do you know what you can get for 10k ? Geez here's one you don't have to clean up, look for parts and comes with a trailer for way under 2K http://sailingtexas.com/201401/soday19124.html
Here's a bunch more http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats99oday19.html
If you know what you're doing and you want to do all the work, find a trailer, checklist that all the parts and pieces are there.... go for it... If anything's missing, and the owner doesn't have a trailer and you DON'T have another boat to compare with...... Save up $1500 and buy one that's been taken care of....
If the seller won't put it together for you so you can check the sails and rigging, rudder, centerboard, auxiliary motor....etc.... RUN...
We ought to look at this like WE saw it when we started out. At one time, yes hell I would have paid 300 bucks for a little Mariner. Sell those dock steps and your money is even, those things are outrageous. Go for it man. Clean like hell. Before you drill or glue something you may want to run it past this crowd, but I'll warn ya, we're tough on a man here. Personally, I would like to see her rags, that could be an expense. Otherwise, I could cut this boat in half and make it five feet longer in a couple of days. By all means Rob and Joe has some good advice, and I would check those areas. That boat now just currently belongs to a member of the legions of 'sailors' that played with it awhile, and simply tired of it. She might be your next love. You might be hers..
A few words about boats:
A free boat is never free.....A cheap boat is never cheap.
Remember, there are yearly maintenance costs that aren't part of the upgrades and improvements. Sails can be expensive and engines are costly.
That boat has been sitting for a while. It may have some hidden damage. Do yourself a favor and look around at what is for sale in your area and use this as a comparison. make a list of things that you have to do, things you want to do, and things you should do, and then add up the cost of this.
Boat buying isn't something that should be done on impulse but planned in advance.
A free boat is never free.....A cheap boat is never cheap.
Remember, there are yearly maintenance costs that aren't part of the upgrades and improvements. Sails can be expensive and engines are costly.
That boat has been sitting for a while. It may have some hidden damage. Do yourself a favor and look around at what is for sale in your area and use this as a comparison. make a list of things that you have to do, things you want to do, and things you should do, and then add up the cost of this.
Boat buying isn't something that should be done on impulse but planned in advance.
If the centerboard is ok, the rudder is there and sails are usable, I would buy her and enjoy. She will need work but you can find used trailers and engines cheaply. Fiberglass repairs are doable. 10k sounds very high to me unless you buy all new and hire pros to do all the work.
Just be certain the Mariner is suitable for the type of sailing you plan to do.
Great boat!
Just be certain the Mariner is suitable for the type of sailing you plan to do.
Great boat!
I have to agree with Bad Obsession...cheap boats are never cheap! Find one that is more complete and you'll be on the water sooner. Check out your local Craigslist, especially towards the end of the season. Here's an example of a bit more for your money in the Long Island area. Not a big fan of the manufacturer but looking at the list of items included you're getting a lot more for a little more money.
http://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/4580776352.html
Also, long island yacht sales has a section for boats under $5K. Keep an eye out there.
Having fun is a big part of sailing but the work you have to do to get there can be frustrating.
http://longisland.craigslist.org/boa/4580776352.html
Also, long island yacht sales has a section for boats under $5K. Keep an eye out there.
Having fun is a big part of sailing but the work you have to do to get there can be frustrating.
The Mariner Class assn. is filled with members who have resurrected the boats for far less than 10,000, or even 5,000.
Of course you can spend more, but, when first getting your feet wet, do you need to?
Safety is paramount, and refreshing that equipment will be a few bucks no matter what you buy.
Keep in mind the size does reduce the cost. Of everything. Systems are simpler as in no plumbing, no electric, etc...
The value of the very active Mariner Class Assn, cannot be discounted. A nicer, more "newbe" friendly group would be very hard to find.
If I recall my very distant youth, it was MUCH harder to come by 2 or 3 thousand in a lump, than it was $300, and spend a little at at time as you fix her up "over the winter" as you say.
If you think you don't have the skills, be patient, read a lot, ask questions and you will be amazed at how quickly the skills are developed. Skills that last a lifetime.
And let's not forget the pride of having done it yourself.
To be honest, the boat does not look that bad, dirty, yes. The paint is not terrible, the mast and boom are there, but I don't see the kick-up rudder. If that's missing, maybe walk away then, as new they are expensive, and used are a little hard to find.
New running rigging is almost a given, but again, not a big cost.
If the sails are good, great, if not, used sails do come up on the Assn. website somewhat regularly and are pretty reasonable. Maybe 150, 200 for used main,.
By all means, look around. But don't be afraid of a $300 Mariner. They are tough little boats.
robj
Of course you can spend more, but, when first getting your feet wet, do you need to?
Safety is paramount, and refreshing that equipment will be a few bucks no matter what you buy.
Keep in mind the size does reduce the cost. Of everything. Systems are simpler as in no plumbing, no electric, etc...
The value of the very active Mariner Class Assn, cannot be discounted. A nicer, more "newbe" friendly group would be very hard to find.
If I recall my very distant youth, it was MUCH harder to come by 2 or 3 thousand in a lump, than it was $300, and spend a little at at time as you fix her up "over the winter" as you say.
If you think you don't have the skills, be patient, read a lot, ask questions and you will be amazed at how quickly the skills are developed. Skills that last a lifetime.
And let's not forget the pride of having done it yourself.
To be honest, the boat does not look that bad, dirty, yes. The paint is not terrible, the mast and boom are there, but I don't see the kick-up rudder. If that's missing, maybe walk away then, as new they are expensive, and used are a little hard to find.
New running rigging is almost a given, but again, not a big cost.
If the sails are good, great, if not, used sails do come up on the Assn. website somewhat regularly and are pretty reasonable. Maybe 150, 200 for used main,.
By all means, look around. But don't be afraid of a $300 Mariner. They are tough little boats.
robj
Just from my own opinions..
First thing, is there a trailer that comes with it? If not, you'll spend a few hundred at least trying to find a trailer to move it with, and that assumes you have a vehicle to tow it with. By the time you factor in the trailer cost + the $300 for the boat, you might be able to find something a little better for the total.
Assuming trailering is taken care of, the next questions I have are mostly about the structure and interior. I see the hatch is open a few inches, has it been that way the whole time, or just so you could see inside? Judging by the leaves and standing water in the cockpit, if that companionway hatch has been open this whole time, you could have a bunch of fun inside.
I see the mast looks like a tiny bit of curve to it, but that should straighten out once raised. How does the standing rigging look though? If your stays and everything are kinked up or rusted, you'll likely want new ones/replacements. So that can add up too.
My personal thoughts? If there's no structural issues that jump out, if the rigging looks sound and the sails aren't shredded, and if you have a way to move it and get it to the water, then for $300 bucks and some elbow grease, by all means go for it and enjoy it! Like you said, it'd be a stepping stone. Sure it'd be nice to just get something in ready-to-go shape for a few thousand dollars, but if that's not an option, this might at least help with the interim.
Sure, free boats are never free, and cheap isn't cheap, but it doesn't mean that EVERY cheap boat is going to cost tens of thousands of dollars to get seaworthy. And it also depends on what your level of expectation is. It's not like you would have to refit this boat back to factory perfect restoration. If you just want something to enjoy on the water, then you could probably do that just fine with this one. Just make sure to factor in what might need replacing now, or the immediate future to keep it solid.
First thing, is there a trailer that comes with it? If not, you'll spend a few hundred at least trying to find a trailer to move it with, and that assumes you have a vehicle to tow it with. By the time you factor in the trailer cost + the $300 for the boat, you might be able to find something a little better for the total.
Assuming trailering is taken care of, the next questions I have are mostly about the structure and interior. I see the hatch is open a few inches, has it been that way the whole time, or just so you could see inside? Judging by the leaves and standing water in the cockpit, if that companionway hatch has been open this whole time, you could have a bunch of fun inside.
I see the mast looks like a tiny bit of curve to it, but that should straighten out once raised. How does the standing rigging look though? If your stays and everything are kinked up or rusted, you'll likely want new ones/replacements. So that can add up too.
My personal thoughts? If there's no structural issues that jump out, if the rigging looks sound and the sails aren't shredded, and if you have a way to move it and get it to the water, then for $300 bucks and some elbow grease, by all means go for it and enjoy it! Like you said, it'd be a stepping stone. Sure it'd be nice to just get something in ready-to-go shape for a few thousand dollars, but if that's not an option, this might at least help with the interim.
Sure, free boats are never free, and cheap isn't cheap, but it doesn't mean that EVERY cheap boat is going to cost tens of thousands of dollars to get seaworthy. And it also depends on what your level of expectation is. It's not like you would have to refit this boat back to factory perfect restoration. If you just want something to enjoy on the water, then you could probably do that just fine with this one. Just make sure to factor in what might need replacing now, or the immediate future to keep it solid.
I'm a Mariner owner; I echo the endorsements of the boat and the association.
Here's what I'd do if I were in your shoes:
- See if I can find a trailer that will work. (I couldn't find a reasonably affordable one in my area.)
- Shop for a 2.5 to 5 horsepower outboard and mount.
- Add the cost of these essentials to the $300 for the boat. If its still affordable, I'd offer $500 if the owner will show you how to set up the boat where it now sits and the boat passes muster. That includes deploying the centerboard, which should be doable on those stands. (Read a book on inspecting old sailboats). My guess is that the owner will correctly tell you that he can't step the mast that because of the tree. That would be a deal killer for me.
- To pass muster, the boat must be sailable as is or you can determine that the parts it will take to get it there, add up to less than $1000. That's trailer, motor, and whatever else. Add that to the $500 you'll pay for the boat and your max investment is $1500. I might go up to or even a bit higher than $2000 if I could actually sail it before I made the deal. But absolutely not more than $1500 if not.
If you can't make it work for $1500, look for something else. Good Mariners are plentiful.
Centerboard, rudder/tiller/gudgeons, sails are things you need to look at very closely. Also all equipment subject to wear such as blocks, mast head pulley, halyards and sheets.
Here's what I'd do if I were in your shoes:
- See if I can find a trailer that will work. (I couldn't find a reasonably affordable one in my area.)
- Shop for a 2.5 to 5 horsepower outboard and mount.
- Add the cost of these essentials to the $300 for the boat. If its still affordable, I'd offer $500 if the owner will show you how to set up the boat where it now sits and the boat passes muster. That includes deploying the centerboard, which should be doable on those stands. (Read a book on inspecting old sailboats). My guess is that the owner will correctly tell you that he can't step the mast that because of the tree. That would be a deal killer for me.
- To pass muster, the boat must be sailable as is or you can determine that the parts it will take to get it there, add up to less than $1000. That's trailer, motor, and whatever else. Add that to the $500 you'll pay for the boat and your max investment is $1500. I might go up to or even a bit higher than $2000 if I could actually sail it before I made the deal. But absolutely not more than $1500 if not.
If you can't make it work for $1500, look for something else. Good Mariners are plentiful.
Centerboard, rudder/tiller/gudgeons, sails are things you need to look at very closely. Also all equipment subject to wear such as blocks, mast head pulley, halyards and sheets.
It might be a decent boat but I'd inquire if the "seller" might pay you $300 for taking it away ... if you have a way to move it. Nobody should be "selling" a boat in that condition. The neglect is obvious. If he doesn't clean it up to sell it, what does that tell you? Is there an explanation why a trailer isn't available?
At the very least, tell the seller you might be interested if he cleans it up to demonstrate that it is worth anything. Why should you pay for the boat AND muck thru the grime as well? Take a serious look at what you can buy before paying for somebody else's headache. I'll bet your perspective will change.
At the very least, tell the seller you might be interested if he cleans it up to demonstrate that it is worth anything. Why should you pay for the boat AND muck thru the grime as well? Take a serious look at what you can buy before paying for somebody else's headache. I'll bet your perspective will change.
In the first picture of THE THREE that boat has to have ICE DAMAGE
Ny winters are a ***** and that boat is WET
Hey. Hey hey hey. Y'all are beating this boat to death when you can also clearly see a bucket, AND a fender with the deal..
offer him $!00 dollars but make sure you get the steps as you can always sell them for $100. This will take some time and money but as you mentioned it will be a winter project for you, I guess the real question is how much will you be able/willing to spend on it. You did not mention sails or any other gear. I do not see a boom ? This will not be cheap but sounds like you will need a trailer,engine etc so how much will you spend ? Add up all that then see what your budget will buy compared to that boat. The money will add up fast ! Not saying it is a bad deal but just make sure you know what you are getting into. Good Luck!
I guess what I would do is find out what is missing, get pricing on the missing parts (new or used) and then compare it to a turn key Mariner. No sense of putting more into it than it's worth. I paid $1500 for my C22 that looked in as bad a shape but had no missing parts. It shined up real nice.
It is amazing to me how very bad a boat can be and still be a good sailboat. We should consider that usable sails, spars that stay where they should, a hull that doesn't leak, a keel and a rudder, and a few hundred feet of sta-set are all you need. Everything after that is comfort and for looks.