Sail miss formed when reefed

dlochner · May 10, 2014

There should be very little if any pressure on the reefing lines that pass through the body of the sail. The main purpose of those lines is to control the sail that is not being used.

The problem you describe may be caused by inadequate outhaul tension at the aft reef point. That needs to be cranked on pretty hard. A couple of things to look at are the amount of pressure you put on the reefing line, the one that pulls the aft end of the sail back to the end of the boom and the angles and leads for the reefing line, is the block far enough aft to get a good purchase on the sail.

Finally, how old is the sail? It might be blown out and not able to be reefed effectively. A blown out mainsail will also cause you to reef earlier than a new main.

Stu Jackson · May 10, 2014

Yes, many skippers using reef points tie the bunt lines much too tight, and provide perhaps insufficient tension on the clew reef line, especially with single line reefing.

In many cases, even with a second reef, I don't bother with the bunt lines at all.

Give it another try, even in lighter winds, just to see.

bffatcat · May 10, 2014

reef

make sure your aft cringle is pulled flat I t should be right down at the boom As far as tying points in I never use them I just let the dead area hang loose Point ties should never be tight They are there mostly for neatness not to hold the deat area down on the boom

Anonymous 121765 · May 11, 2014

I agree with all the replies & advice given.

First, yea the outhaul after lowering the main should be done first. Then set your ties & readjust the luff if needed. And, as the guys stressed, not tie down tight. I hate when seeing a reef on a boat with the sail bunching & packed too tight. It can crease/crack & damage the cloth. I had my reef lines made longer for easier tying.

I have 2 reef points with two outhaul lines running thru the leach cringles. The lines are tied to attachments on my port side boom. The 3/8" lines loop up thru the cringles & down to a double block on my stbd side boom. These run forward thru a double rope clutch close to my goose neck & main halyard winch. This way I can make quick work on the luff & outhaul points. Sometimes you find yourself having to reef while underway, this could solve the problem. My lines are only 18" longer than the rope clutch &this makes for a clean setup.

This may sound like a little overkill but most times, I have folks onboard that are not sailors. I find it easier to get it done myself than asking someone to do something they are not familiar with. And if having to put in a reef while under sail, the weather & conditions are already spirited.

CR

Joe · May 11, 2014

The aft reef line is not acting on the leech cringle properly to give you maximum foot tension. That is the problem.... but the solution depends on your set up. You have not described or pictured the system. Some boats will have the reef line emerge from the boom end... extend at an angle directly to the reef cringle and then straight down to be tied directly to the boom under the loose footed main... This is the characteristic of an internal reefing system. This system is cleaner in appearance but has some flaws because the distance from clew point to boom end is so great it affects the proper down and back angle on the cringle.

External systems can vary.. most have fixed cheek blocks on the boom for each reef point so the desired 45 deg down and back angle can be realized on each particular reef. Some have a moveable block on a track....

The essence is that you want a 45 deg down and back angle on that aft reef line. If you have the internal/boom end method then you may need to use a strap or piece of line to keep the clew from lifting or sliding forward.... On an external system you can relocate the boom's cheek block to get the angle you want.

(note: use COLORED sail ties if you decide to gasket your sail to the boom... to prevent damage if you forget to remove them before letting go the reef lines.)

Finally, if you're having trouble getting enough tension while you're at the mast or using a cockpit routed reef line.... at the mast, grab the line mid way along the boom to snug down the clew, rather than just pulling from the forward end, to give a little extra leverage. In the cockpit, lift the boom a foot so when you pull the line taut, then use the leverage of the boom on the cleated line to bring the clew down to it's desired place.

shemandr · May 11, 2014

The only thing I can add to the above is that if you don't get the sail flat, the reef doesn't help that much. The reef has two purposes. One is to reduce sail area. The other is to flatten the main. Without flattening the sail, you will get a lot of drag which will cause more heeling than power.

Joe · May 11, 2014

In slab reefing, the sail is secured at the tack and clew... just as a loose foot main. The gaskets or sail ties threaded through the mid sail cringles to clean up the slabbed portion of the reef, but are not necessary to support the reefed sail... so where most reefing is temporary in nature, the slab is not brailed up.....

The question of shape, posed by YVRGuy in his post, is a result of inadequate tension on the clew, and too much on the gaskets.... The problem can be solved out on the water by simply removing the gaskets and resetting the clew reefing line. Unfortunately he seems to have disappeared from this thread.

dlochner · May 11, 2014

Joe said:
He could have easily solved his problem out on the water by simply removing the gaskets and resetting the clew reefing line. Unfortunately he seems to have disappeared from this thread. Perhaps he's discovered google and youtube.... or maybe acquired a copy of any basic sailing tome.

Joe, your response is unnecessarily snarky and uncalled for. He asked a simple question, he deserves an answer, not an insult.

Joe · May 11, 2014

dlochner said:
Joe, your response is unnecessarily snarky and uncalled for. He asked a simple question, he deserves an answer, not an insult.

I changed it.... is that better?

Jackdaw · May 14, 2014

Some thoughts.

First, if you use the reefing lines in the middle of the sail, they are there to gather up reefed sail ONLY, and not to support the boom. There should be no tension on them.

Next, make sure your vang is off and you loosen you mainsheet when you put in your reef, otherwise you will not be able to get your clew to the correct position. It should be tight to the boom, and far enough back to act as an outhaul, pulling the foot of the sail tight.

You should be able to make your sail as flat as you could when unreefed.

thinwater · May 14, 2014

Though I beleive all of the posters know this, just to clarify for the OP and other readers...

More than a few sailors have torn the mainsail (ripped the reefing ties through the cloth) because they had load on them. As stated buy others, they are only to gather up the lowered cloth and keep it from flapping about. With lazy jacks and full battens, for example, they are sometime not needed at all.

dlochner · May 14, 2014

YVRguy said:
Thanks to all for this very useful info. I will post pictures when I get a chance. One problem with my boat is my outhaul seems to be fused in place and can't be adjusted. Another thing I noticed at the end of the trip is that my topping lift, which I rarely adjust, might have been too tight?

The topping lift should always be loose when sailing. It's only purpose is to keep the boom out of the cockpit when you are not sailing. Racing boats, like the J24 don't have a topping lift.

The outhaul is probably a multi purchase block system inside the boom. If it is frozen, time to take it out and replace the blocks with nice ball bearing blocks. On my Sabre 30 the blocks were cheap Schaeffer blocks that were one size too small for the line Sabre used. Once I replaced the blocks and line, it worked like a charm.

Joe · May 15, 2014

YVRguy said:
Hey Joe;

I'm just reading the thread now as I've been on a sailing trip that was mostly out of cell coverage. I originally posted from a marina that had wifi. That is why I haven't been part of the thread. Thanks anyway for your input. (Is there a joke for you in there about actually sailing vs talking about it? )

Thanks to all for this very useful info. I will post pictures when I get a chance. One problem with my boat is my outhaul seems to be fused in place and can't be adjusted. Another thing I noticed at the end of the trip is that my topping lift, which I rarely adjust, might have been too tight?

That's cool... glad to see you have a sense of humor. Next time you go out, practice reefing 3 or 4 times just to get comfortable, and confident, telling others what to do... watch this video... it's excellent... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p24-BtcNZLk

notice this guy uses elastic to secure the slab... so there's no chance of damaging the main.

Stu Jackson · May 15, 2014

YVRguy said:
That's a great little video. I noticed they had a convenient way to lock the boom down while they're reefing.

Doug, another trick is to learn how to reef when you're sailing. The concept is to sail closehauled usually on starboard tack, drop the traveler and perhaps let a little mainsheet out to luff the main. Then reef. Essentially you're sailing on just your jib. This avoids having to "lock down" your boom, 'cuz you never have to go on deck when reefing. IMHO, if your reefing lines do not allow you to do this, by having them led back to the cockpit and be free to run and reef the main properly, you should figure out a way to do so for safety. There's no reason to go on deck to reef. I used to go up to do it on our C22 and C25, although most of the time I did it before we left the dock. Not a great idea on a bigger boat like yours.

You might also do a search on this forum for "double line reefing."

dlochner · May 15, 2014

One tip that hasn't been mentioned is to mark your main halyard for the reef point. It will speed up reefing and reduces the time needed to be on the cabin top.

Lower the halyard to the mark and cleat it. Put the tack on the reef hook, tighten the reef lines. Make a minor adjustment to the halyard if needed. Doing this will keep the sail from coming down completely, so there will be less loose sail and you can focus on just the halyard and then the tack, and then the reef lines.