Battery Upgrade

Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Last year I completed an upgrade on the electrical distribution and charging system. What I didn't realize at the time is I created a ticking time bomb. Our battery system prior to the upgrade consisted of two 4D Interstate batteries. One was a year old the other was 4 years old at that time. They were each on separate banks controlled by the typical 1/2/Both/Off switch. The 4D's are spec'd at about 160 amp hours each. At the end of the upgrade I had the two 4D's in parallel as the primary bank with a total of 320 amp hours and I was primed to drop in a reserve battery consisting of a Group 24 deep cycle.
Upgraded Battery System in 2013
The fatal error I made then was putting two batteries of different age and wear in parallel. This will cause more stress on the new battery and shorten it's life. On top of that I knew that 4Ds were not very good deep cycle batteries despite the manufacture's claims. So I did not intend for these batteries to remain when we begin full time cruising. I wanted to upgrade the batteries to something with better amp hours, that didn't weigh 140 pounds each and had better true deep cycle performance. Since I knew I planned to upgrade these I got a little lax in maintenance on them this winter. Right before we launched I realized they were likely toast due to my neglect. I confirmed this last week and started planning my upgrade.

Like I do with all things electric, I consulted Maine Sail/Compass Marine. Based on his research I decided that the best battery bank for us would be to put four 6 volt golf cart batteries in series/parallel. He had also identified the best bang for your buck 6 volt golf cart batteries as the Duracell ECG2 from Sam's Club. These batteries are made by Dekka/East Penn and are the exact same batteries as sold at West Marine for $270 with a different sticker. The price was much better than West Marine at $112 each plus a $15 core charge each and a $45 Sam's Club membership. These batteries set up as two parallel sets of two batteries in series would provide 460 amp hours at 12 volt and be true deep cycle. Here is a wiring diagram for the new system.


So off I went to Fall River first thing Saturday morning (closest Sam's Club to me; about a hours drive away). Purchased my batteries and I was almost ready to start this project.

I stopped at Marine Consignment in Fall River to look for battery boxes. The existing fiberglass batter box for the 4Ds wasn't going to work with the new setup. As luck would have it they had exactly 4 battery boxes that would fit the golf cart batteries. They were not the same brand but at $4 each as opposed to $10 plus shipping from Defender it was a steal. I also scored a sweat metal 25mm flare gun I have been looking for at a great price.

Back I went to figure out how to ram 5 batteries into the battery compartment on my boat. I knew most of the layout work I did last year was going to have to change. The biggest problem I had was getting the correct battery orientation. Based on a typically great article from Maine Sail, I found out that batteries are supposed to be situated in a specific direction on sailboats due to heel and exposing the plates. However, I just could not get all of the batteries in the correct orientation. In the end, I got 3 of the 4 6 volt batteries in the correct orientation. Not perfect.

On the two batteries I couldn't get in perfect orientation I made some adjustments that I hope will be OK in the end. For the 6 volt, I positioned it so it was on the centerline of the boat. There should be less affect due to heeling in this location. On the Group 24, I chose one that has the fills in the center rather than offset and also positioning it as close to the centerline as possible. Again, this should hopefully partially mitigate the issue. Also, the Group 24 will not be in use while sailing. So that should hopefully help as well. In addition, I plan to add a battery watering system, something like Flow-Rite system. This will make maintaining the batteries easier and should help reduce the potential for spillage during heel.

I again followed Maine Sail's lead and used pad eyes and nylon straps to secure the batteries.

Another minor flaw in my system is the length between the terminal and the fuse. According to ABYC standards, this should be 7 inches. For the primary bank the distance is 8 inches. Not too much to worry about. On the reserve bank, the distance is close to 16 inches. I could fix this by adding an on terminal fuse and I might do that in the future.

To make all of the terminal connections I used Anchor terminal lugs. I purchased a cheap battery cable crimper from Amazon for $33. I have to say that I am very impressed with the crimper. I had previously borrowed a friends FTZ 94284 crimper to make my terminals for the last project but that was not available for this project. Plus I wanted a way to be able to make terminals on the boat incase I need to sometime in the future. The cheap crimper worked very well. I tugged and twisted on the crimped lugs and I couldn't get them to move. This crimper is a great addition to my cruising tool set. I used two different types of marine grade heat shrink on the project. One was Anchor brand and the other was from Harbor Freight. To be honest, I could see no difference other than the price. The Anchor brand was twice as much. Both were the same thickness (checked with calipers) and both had adhesive. They shrunk up well and didn't require excessive heat.

This upgrade ran about $650 including the cost of the crimper.

Cross posted on my blog. http://svsmitty.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/battery-upgrade/
 

Tom J

.
Sep 30, 2008
2,325
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
Nice install, Jesse. Did you find the height of the 6v's tp be more than the 4D's?
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Nice install, Jesse. Did you find the height of the 6v's tp be more than the 4D's?
Yes, but not by much (an inch maybe). If I wasn't trying to fit the group 24 reserve battery in this area it could have had a cleaner installation. Either way you will have to remove the fiberglass box for the 4Ds (if you have one) and bet new boxes for the 12volts.

The biggest height issue I had was on the batter that is the most to port forward. That just barely clears height wise.

Let me know when you are back in the area and you can come by and check it out.

JK
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Jesse,

Would love to see an image of the crimped lugs and what die you used. I have purchased about three hydraulic crimp tools and as of yet not a single one has made a proper crimp or had dies sized for the lugs I was using even when they said "AWG"..
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Jesse,

Would love to see an image of the crimped lugs and what die you used. I have purchased about three hydraulic crimp tools and as of yet not a single one has made a proper crimp or had dies sized for the lugs I was using even when they said "AWG"..
I will get some photos for you. I don't think I took any preshrink wrap so I might have to do up one to photograph. The shape of the crimps came out looking like the 4 AWG one you did with the HFT crimper. (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/152727297) This crimper did have what appeared to be "chrome-plated" dies. The dies also stayed in fine and lined up better than what you had on the HFT crimper.

As far as the AWG side, the add on Amazon gave AWG sizes but the unit actually came with metric squared (I think? They were labeled in increments of 10 that only seemed to match up to mm2). So I used the 50 mm2 (actual conversion is 53.5 mm2) to do a test one to see if it would work. Without shrink wrap I tugged on that thing as hard as I could and I couldn't get it so separate. So then I tied a it to some paracord and tied that to fixed dock. It did eventually give but I had a lot of my body weight on it. Clearly not as scientific as some of your tests.

I wasn't expecting much for a $33 crimper. I had my Ancor hammer crimper as a backup. This seemed to work and probably makes better connections than the awful, poorly solder ones our marina approved hack did on my friends boat last year. Ideally I would have bought the FTZ ones but I only needed to make a few crimps for this project and I am trying to watch the boat bucks as we build the cruising kiddy. So I decided to take a gamble.

Jesse
 
May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
I will get some photos for you. I don't think I took any preshrink wrap so I might have to do up one to photograph. The shape of the crimps came out looking like the 4 AWG one you did with the HFT crimper. (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/152727297) This crimper did have what appeared to be "chrome-plated" dies. The dies also stayed in fine and lined up better than what you had on the HFT crimper. As far as the AWG side, the add on Amazon gave AWG sizes but the unit actually came with metric squared (I think? They were labeled in increments of 10 that only seemed to match up to mm2). So I used the 50 mm2 (actual conversion is 53.5 mm2) to do a test one to see if it would work. Without shrink wrap I tugged on that thing as hard as I could and I couldn't get it so separate. So then I tied a it to some paracord and tied that to fixed dock. It did eventually give but I had a lot of my body weight on it. Clearly not as scientific as some of your tests. I wasn't expecting much for a $33 crimper. I had my Ancor hammer crimper as a backup. This seemed to work and probably makes better connections than the awful, poorly solder ones our marina approved hack did on my friends boat last year. Ideally I would have bought the FTZ ones but I only needed to make a few crimps for this project and I am trying to watch the boat bucks as we build the cruising kiddy. So I decided to take a gamble. Jesse
Jesse,
I know you purchased the crimper and did the crimps, but if you do have the need, you are more than welcome to borrow my FTZ. I have friends in your marina and am in Boston so would be easy enough to get it to you.
 
May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
Last year I completed an upgrade on the electrical distribution and charging system. What I didn't realize at the time is I created a ticking time bomb. Our battery system prior to the upgrade consisted of two 4D Interstate batteries. One was a year old the other was 4 years old at that time. They were each on separate banks controlled by the typical 1/2/Both/Off switch. The 4D's are spec'd at about 160 amp hours each. At the end of the upgrade I had the two 4D's in parallel as the primary bank with a total of 320 amp hours and I was primed to drop in a reserve battery consisting of a Group 24 deep cycle. http://svsmitty.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/img_0858.jpgUpgraded Battery System in 2013 The fatal error I made then was putting two batteries of different age and wear in parallel. This will cause more stress on the new battery and shorten it's life. On top of that I knew that 4Ds were not very good deep cycle batteries despite the manufacture's claims. So I did not intend for these batteries to remain when we begin full time cruising. I wanted to upgrade the batteries to something with better amp hours, that didn't weigh 140 pounds each and had better true deep cycle performance. Since I knew I planned to upgrade these I got a little lax in maintenance on them this winter. Right before we launched I realized they were likely toast due to my neglect. I confirmed this last week and started planning my upgrade. Like I do with all things electric, I consulted Maine Sail/Compass Marine. Based on his research I decided that the best battery bank for us would be to put four 6 volt golf cart batteries in series/parallel. He had also identified the best bang for your buck 6 volt golf cart batteries as the Duracell ECG2 from Sam's Club. These batteries are made by Dekka/East Penn and are the exact same batteries as sold at West Marine for $270 with a different sticker. The price was much better than West Marine at $112 each plus a $15 core charge each and a $45 Sam's Club membership. These batteries set up as two parallel sets of two batteries in series would provide 460 amp hours at 12 volt and be true deep cycle. Here is a wiring diagram for the new system. http://svsmitty.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/jk-wiring-diagram_6v-house.jpg So off I went to Fall River first thing Saturday morning (closest Sam's Club to me; about a hours drive away). Purchased my batteries and I was almost ready to start this project. I stopped at Marine Consignment in Fall River to look for battery boxes. The existing fiberglass batter box for the 4Ds wasn't going to work with the new setup. As luck would have it they had exactly 4 battery boxes that would fit the golf cart batteries. They were not the same brand but at $4 each as opposed to $10 plus shipping from Defender it was a steal. I also scored a sweat metal 25mm flare gun I have been looking for at a great price. Back I went to figure out how to ram 5 batteries into the battery compartment on my boat. I knew most of the layout work I did last year was going to have to change. The biggest problem I had was getting the correct battery orientation. Based on a typically great article from Maine Sail, I found out that batteries are supposed to be situated in a specific direction on sailboats due to heel and exposing the plates. However, I just could not get all of the batteries in the correct orientation. In the end, I got 3 of the 4 6 volt batteries in the correct orientation. Not perfect. On the two batteries I couldn't get in perfect orientation I made some adjustments that I hope will be OK in the end. For the 6 volt, I positioned it so it was on the centerline of the boat. There should be less affect due to heeling in this location. On the Group 24, I chose one that has the fills in the center rather than offset and also positioning it as close to the centerline as possible. Again, this should hopefully partially mitigate the issue. Also, the Group 24 will not be in use while sailing. So that should hopefully help as well. In addition, I plan to add a battery watering system, something like Flow-Rite system. This will make maintaining the batteries easier and should help reduce the potential for spillage during heel. http://svsmitty.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/img_1577.jpg http://svsmitty.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/img_1578.jpg I again followed Maine Sail's lead and used pad eyes and nylon straps to secure the batteries. Another minor flaw in my system is the length between the terminal and the fuse. According to ABYC standards, this should be 7 inches. For the primary bank the distance is 8 inches. Not too much to worry about. On the reserve bank, the distance is close to 16 inches. I could fix this by adding an on terminal fuse and I might do that in the future. To make all of the terminal connections I used Anchor terminal lugs. I purchased a cheap battery cable crimper from Amazon for $33. I have to say that I am very impressed with the crimper. I had previously borrowed a friends FTZ 94284 crimper to make my terminals for the last project but that was not available for this project. Plus I wanted a way to be able to make terminals on the boat incase I need to sometime in the future. The cheap crimper worked very well. I tugged and twisted on the crimped lugs and I couldn't get them to move. This crimper is a great addition to my cruising tool set. I used two different types of marine grade heat shrink on the project. One was Anchor brand and the other was from Harbor Freight. To be honest, I could see no difference other than the price. The Anchor brand was twice as much. Both were the same thickness (checked with calipers) and both had adhesive. They shrunk up well and didn't require excessive heat. This upgrade ran about $650 including the cost of the crimper. Cross posted on my blog. http://svsmitty.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/battery-upgrade/
Do you happen to know the dimensions of your original battery box? When the time comes, I want to try to go with 6V. I'm pretty sure I have the height, but my challenge is where the cable pass through are. I'm thinking putting channels in my just completed glass work :(



image-1704122767.jpg
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Do you happen to know the dimensions of your original battery box? When the time comes, I want to try to go with 6V. I'm pretty sure I have the height, but my challenge is where the cable pass through are. I'm thinking putting channels in my just completed glass work :(

View attachment 74876
I think it was 21" by 17". I still have the fiberglass box and will measure next time I go to my storage unit.

I think you can fit them but not in proper orientation. The 6 volts are 10.25" by 7.125" and 10.875" tall. For proper orientation you need the 10.25" part going from port to starboard. The way your box is laid out it's going to be around 17" port to starboard.

Thanks for the offer on the crimpers.

Jesse
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I will get some photos for you. I don't think I took any preshrink wrap so I might have to do up one to photograph. The shape of the crimps came out looking like the 4 AWG one you did with the HFT crimper. (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/152727297) This crimper did have what appeared to be "chrome-plated" dies. The dies also stayed in fine and lined up better than what you had on the HFT crimper.

As far as the AWG side, the add on Amazon gave AWG sizes but the unit actually came with metric squared (I think? They were labeled in increments of 10 that only seemed to match up to mm2). So I used the 50 mm2 (actual conversion is 53.5 mm2) to do a test one to see if it would work. Without shrink wrap I tugged on that thing as hard as I could and I couldn't get it so separate. So then I tied a it to some paracord and tied that to fixed dock. It did eventually give but I had a lot of my body weight on it. Clearly not as scientific as some of your tests.

I wasn't expecting much for a $33 crimper. I had my Ancor hammer crimper as a backup. This seemed to work and probably makes better connections than the awful, poorly solder ones our marina approved hack did on my friends boat last year. Ideally I would have bought the FTZ ones but I only needed to make a few crimps for this project and I am trying to watch the boat bucks as we build the cruising kiddy. So I decided to take a gamble.

Jesse
Crimps on this size wire should hold over 1000 pounds... You might try to crimp down then use the next smallest die and just snug, rotate, snug, rotate to avoid any pinch.....
 
May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
I think it was 21" by 17". I still have the fiberglass box and will measure next time I go to my storage unit. I think you can fit them but not in proper orientation. The 6 volts are 10.25" by 7.125" and 10.875" tall. For proper orientation you need the 10.25" part going from port to starboard. The way your box is laid out it's going to be around 17" port to starboard. Thanks for the offer on the crimpers. Jesse
Thanks Jesse,
Like all things I may have to compromise. Don't care for 4Ds and particularly don't like manhandling them. So more amp hours and easier to move vs ideal orientation will be my dilemma. I am also not adverse to going with AGM 6V (understanding what that means in terms of cost, charging profile etc). I put AGMs on my last boat and they were still going strong at 8 seasons so I think I got the charging profile down. I'm hopefully a few seasons away from replacing these beasts though...
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Thanks Jesse, Like all things I may have to compromise. Don't care for 4Ds and particularly don't like manhandling them. So more amp hours and easier to move vs ideal orientation will be my dilemma. I am also not adverse to going with AGM 6V (understanding what that means in terms of cost, charging profile etc). I put AGMs on my last boat and they were still going strong at 8 seasons so I think I got the charging profile down. I'm hopefully a few seasons away from replacing these beasts though...
I hear you and just had to make that compromise myself.

If you go to remove those beasts while I am still in the Boston let me know if you want a hand. I would gladly trade some manual labor for a sail on a 355.

Jesse
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Crimps on this size wire should hold over 1000 pounds... You might try to crimp down then use the next smallest die and just snug, rotate, snug, rotate to avoid any pinch.....
Thanks Maine Sail. As always you offer practical advice. :)

Jesse
 
May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
I hear you and just had to make that compromise myself. If you go to remove those beasts while I am still in the Boston let me know if you want a hand. I would gladly trade some manual labor for a sail on a 355. Jesse
Thanks for the offer Jesse, but you are welcome to come for a sail anytime. I will look for you out there...
 

Tom J

.
Sep 30, 2008
2,325
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
Yes, but not by much (an inch maybe). If I wasn't trying to fit the group 24 reserve battery in this area it could have had a cleaner installation. Either way you will have to remove the fiberglass box for the 4Ds (if you have one) and bet new boxes for the 12volts.

The biggest height issue I had was on the batter that is the most to port forward. That just barely clears height wise.

Let me know when you are back in the area and you can come by and check it out.

JK
Thanks, Jesse. I just got back to the Boston area. I like your tie down setup for the 6v's. My 4D's are oriented fore and aft, with 2x4's holding them down. I was concerned how I would hold down the 6v's. See you on the water!
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,944
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
Went to the Dark Side

Now have golf cart batteries as well. Many thanks to Maine Sail for posting about 2.5 years ago about the Duracell/Penn/Deka batteries at Sam's Club. I was able to get them into the same place and position as my old 4D's. :)
 

Attachments

Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Now have golf cart batteries as well. Many thanks to Maine Sail for posting about 2.5 years ago about the Duracell/Penn/Deka batteries at Sam's Club. I was able to get them into the same place and position as my old 4D's. :)
Are you concerned that you didn't put them in the proper orientation relative to heal direction? That was the biggest problem I had in getting mine in. I could only get 3 of 5 in the proper orientation. Also, what about battery boxes?
 
Mar 10, 2012
29
Catalina 310 Hull#293 Erie, PA
i just completed the 6v change over, and have a question about reserve/starter battery location and type. the only location i can find for the size 24 12v reserve/starter battery is in the adjacent area under the port settee area, but it will not fit except if you place it against the slant along the hull. i got a battery box in there, but being slanted/off-center, one would have to choose an AGM battery. that's fine but the Charles Marine charger is set to flooded for the main 6v bank. is there an AGM battery that will stay charged with the charger set to flooded? or is there another location i am overlooking in the 310.
 

Tom J

.
Sep 30, 2008
2,325
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
i just completed the 6v change over, and have a question about reserve/starter battery location and type. the only location i can find for the size 24 12v reserve/starter battery is in the adjacent area under the port settee area, but it will not fit except if you place it against the slant along the hull. i got a battery box in there, but being slanted/off-center, one would have to choose an AGM battery. that's fine but the Charles Marine charger is set to flooded for the main 6v bank. is there an AGM battery that will stay charged with the charger set to flooded? or is there another location i am overlooking in the 310.
I put my start battery in the area you described. To keep the battery level, I epoxied supports to the hull and the side of the settee to support the battery box. Padeyes on the side wall and the aft wall of the compartment secure the battery box.
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,944
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
They are fine

Are you concerned that you didn't put them in the proper orientation relative to heal direction? That was the biggest problem I had in getting mine in. I could only get 3 of 5 in the proper orientation. Also, what about battery boxes?
the batteries are in the same orientation as the 4Ds from the factory and so heel factors should be minimal as they are also closer to the centerline. I am pleased that they were very easy to get in place.
 
Aug 3, 2010
88
Oday 28 Malletts Bay, Lake Champlain
image-420456165.jpg

Willa, having seen your forum avatar, I had to randomly attach a pic of my boat!

Aarrrr, Teach!