Is this alternator and external regulator a good match with this battery pack?Could this charger safely charge this battery pack? (if properly installed and maintained) Is it capable of being done by the average sailboat DIYer?
Charging lithion battery pack
- Thread starter emergpa1
- Start date
That alt package is capable of charging LI but MUST be properly set up. I would NOT advise "drop in" Li replacements at this time and I highly doubt "drop ins" will meet the forthcoming high capacity/Li battery ABYC safety standards. The battery temp sensor is not necessary or wanted with Li but an alt temp sensor is a must.
Li is complex because it is entirely different in the way it is charged and treated. It is NOT drop in ready despite many companies trying to stuff it all in one box and sell it for use with existing charging systems....
Trust me DO NOT GO THERE yet with "drop in"....... Li is a complete system re-design in order to do it correctly.
If you want a Li battery pack ready for marine use go with Genasun or Mastervolt. These two systems are excellent and well executed for marine use.
Alternatively have a system designed and installed by a professional who does this sort of work. There are very, very few competent guys in this country building marine Li packs right now.
LiFePO4 is NOT a "drop in"......
If you want to understand why read the thread below.... I will warn you that thread is 238 pages long and 3600 posts and is but one thread on the subject over there.......
Charlie Johnson of JTB in Florida is doing it but I don't know how far he travels. I do consults but until we finish the standard I am not building for customers.
Great technology but FAR, FAR, FAR from "drop in"......
LiFePO4 Batteries
Li is complex because it is entirely different in the way it is charged and treated. It is NOT drop in ready despite many companies trying to stuff it all in one box and sell it for use with existing charging systems....
Trust me DO NOT GO THERE yet with "drop in"....... Li is a complete system re-design in order to do it correctly.
If you want a Li battery pack ready for marine use go with Genasun or Mastervolt. These two systems are excellent and well executed for marine use.
Alternatively have a system designed and installed by a professional who does this sort of work. There are very, very few competent guys in this country building marine Li packs right now.
LiFePO4 is NOT a "drop in"......
If you want to understand why read the thread below.... I will warn you that thread is 238 pages long and 3600 posts and is but one thread on the subject over there.......
Charlie Johnson of JTB in Florida is doing it but I don't know how far he travels. I do consults but until we finish the standard I am not building for customers.
Great technology but FAR, FAR, FAR from "drop in"......
LiFePO4 Batteries
Thank you mainsail, I was hoping you would comment. I have been browsing this website and reading as much as I can. I will certainly take your advice and hold off for now. You read my mind and new exactly what I was going with this. I will continue to install the best equipment I can and for now, even though I have very limited space and weight is also an issue, continue to use flooded cell batteries.
I still have that lousy BPZ 500 product solar charge controller that is generating noise on my VHF radios. Also the original equipment ac battery charger. So both of those have to be replaced as soon as possible. That is why I am asking.
Re: Charging lith ion battery pack
LiFePo has extremely low internal resistance compared to lead acid. The effect of that is it can both deliver incredible amounts of current, and accept incredible amounts of current compared to lead acid.
So on the alternator side there is the possibility of overheating, as the alternator will be much more heavily loaded than with a lead acid. On the safety side, discharge currents can be far higher so fusing and wiring has to handle this higher current. Fuses have a breaking capacity rating, in addition to the current to trip the fuse, there is a max current that the fuse is rated to stop. So if not correctly fused you run the risk of the fuse not successfully blowing, which would be a problem.
Does you alternator warrantee include this battery? Might want to ask.
LiFePo has extremely low internal resistance compared to lead acid. The effect of that is it can both deliver incredible amounts of current, and accept incredible amounts of current compared to lead acid.
So on the alternator side there is the possibility of overheating, as the alternator will be much more heavily loaded than with a lead acid. On the safety side, discharge currents can be far higher so fusing and wiring has to handle this higher current. Fuses have a breaking capacity rating, in addition to the current to trip the fuse, there is a max current that the fuse is rated to stop. So if not correctly fused you run the risk of the fuse not successfully blowing, which would be a problem.
Does you alternator warrantee include this battery? Might want to ask.
Without getting into the series vs parrelle comparison, What about this pair up for two panels wired in series well aft of the boom charging three 12 volt 110 (some odd) amp hour batteries, such as the SAMs club batteries discussed in a related thread?
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190watt panel with 140 watt controller, plus I think, but defer to MS, that the genesun mppt controller is for a genesun panel only due to the genesun panel operating at lower voltage
I am trying to fill out this form, but cannot determine what "IMP" is. Would someone please enlighten me. Also I am not sure about the parallel string question. I can't believe I have spent so much time on this and still have so many gaps in my knowledge.
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Imp: Is the current at maximum power. The highest current the solar panel will produce under normal operating conditions.
Isc: Is the current when you have short-circuit conditions. This is the peak current the panel can produce with the outputs shorted. Isc is used for calculating overcurrent protection..
Course this is what you get with el-cheapo Chinese panels they can't even do their labeling correctly.
Isc is NEVER lower than Imp yet they have it labeled as such.Ideally you will need more than a 30A controller though a KID or a Rogue MPT3048 could suffice IF you trust those specs.. You are right on the edge of either controller. I don't know that I would trust those ratings......
Be aware that series may NOT get you the most output, especially on sailboats. It rarely does.
If you are ever even thinking about Li then a controller that has full control, and I mean FULL CONTROL of all charging parameters is a must have item. If I was doing a controller for that array I would:
A) Drop panel size down a tad
B) Move up in controller, but this gets very expensive very fast once you push above 30A....
If I learn how or reconnect them in parallel, would that mean I could safely use the KID?Imp: Is the current at maximum power. The highest current the solar panel will produce under normal operating conditions. Isc: Is the current when you have short-circuit conditions. This is the peak current the panel can produce with the outputs shorted. Isc is used for calculating overcurrent protection.. Course this is what you get with el-cheapo Chinese panels they can't even do their labeling correctly.
And are you saying get smaller panels and a larger controller? I suspect you mean either A or B.
If you already have them then all you need is a controller. You are right on the edge of a MidNite Kid or Rogue MPT 3048. I would contact MidNite or Rogue to see if they are comfortable with a 30A controller. You should be okay but if you have any gains from MPPT it may throw you over...
Can you describe how they are currently wired....?
The positive of one panel is wired to the negative of the other panel. And the output of one panel and the negative of the other panel go to the charge controller.
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So they are currently in series. The problem with series on boats is that if one panel becomes shaded it negatively impacts the whole shebang. As you swing at anchor the mast, your motor hoist or boom, especially early or late in the day can cause shading. Early or late in the day is where series really shines as you have a higher overall voltage earlier to begin making current with but if the motor hoist shades one then those gains are eaten into... Newer MPPT's are fast and can deal better with this than cheap MPPT's but parallel on sailboats almost always wins, in the testing I have done.
At a dock always facing the same way, not so much of an issue but when you swing on the hook it can become an issue..
The only way to know is to test it on your boat over multiple weeks and compare outputs. I use a PentaMetric computer interface to do this for customers but they are awfully expensive.
If you find you are not happy with the output simply swap it to parallel and try it that way.... There are a myriad of MC-4 connectors to make this as easy as plug & play....