Standing rigging help

centerline · Feb 18, 2014

macgregor did not build any fractional 21's.... they were all masthead rigs. but this is not to say someone hasent modified it it to a fractional rig... how to tell is if the forestay connects to the top of the mast (masthead rig), or about 3ft down from the top of the mast(fractional rig)....
from looking at the photos, I would take all the standing rigging off of the boat, tag it as you remove it, and then start calling rigging shops in your area. see which ones does 1x19 stainless cable for sailboats... dont use anything except 1x19.
they should be able to make up all the rigging for your boat for around $150-175... or try calling this place for a quote. they should know what size of rigging that boat will take. If I remember correctly, its all 1/8" 1x19....

the standing rigging has to be safe. what you show in the photos, is not. the running rigging on that boat can be about anything/any condition for now, just to get you out and having fun, and then upgrade as you go along....

the small diameter, short length rigging is relatively cheap to have made (if you shop around), but when you start buying the swaging tools, or the quick connectors, cable and such to make your own, it really doesnt pay if you are on a tight budget... and if you make one mistake in the finished length of the stays, you have no one to warrenty the mistake.... so you are spending MORE money to rectify it.....

doing a quick search for sailboat related parts on the internet wont save you a bunch of money, but if you have patience and do a thorough search of all the sites you come across, you can save big.
there is no single supplier who discounts it all, but there are some that has an affordable line on one or another of a particular item, and you just need to be diligent enough to find it.... the deals are there but you have to work for it...

when you get it all together, you will have a fun, easy to set up and sail, and reasonably fast boat for its class, to enjoy until you get 2foot-itis

Buki · Feb 19, 2014

meeeowlet said:
Hi, I'm sure this has been covered a billion times, and I have tried searches through the forums for hours, but this all seems overwhelming. Background info: My husband and I are very new to boats, and he just purchased a 1970 Venture 21 a few months back. We have been trying to get it sailable since (well, I have, and he's done some of it). I am wanting to replace the standing rigging, and I want to do it correctly and to safety standards, but there are so many different opinions on how to do it I am completely confused. We are on a budget, so the cheapest way to do it safely is what I am aiming for. So far, what I have gather from browsing the internet is that if you don't get a professional rigger to swage your rigging, than the best options are to use compression terminals like Sta-lok or Norseman. This is the cheapest I have found Sta-lok, are these decent prices?: http://www.p2marine.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=7172 http://www.p2marine.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=7234 My issues are 1: everything is so darn expensive! 2: I have no clue what size wire my old stays are 3: I am not sure which stays I might be able to get away without using turnbuckles (there is one on each stay currently, but they all have an end swaged to the stay so I would have to replace at least that part instead of getting away with a thimble and shackles, or something...). Rigging as is: Fractional rig (I think) Outer and inner shrouds backstay I think I need to replace at least some of the shroud rigging - the lines are starting to come apart. The swaging looks rusty-ish on a lot of the stays. I would ideally like to redo all of the rigging, but that depends on how cheaply I can redo it. Any suggestions? Think I should definitely replace this? Is this a bad kink or an acceptable bend? Rusty looking swages :/

During my search for a Mac 26, I got a quote from Blue Water Yachts for a full set of stays - all 6 for 294 plus 20 shipping. Not bad. I just told them the year and model and they quoted me on the standard set up. You may want to give them a ring.

MrBill_FLL · Feb 19, 2014

west marine will (or use to) allow you to use their swag and cutting tools.

they are not the cheapest supplier, but they have everything you need.

those shrouds / stays do need replacing.

not sure you need anything more than compression swag ends. (doubles) I would defiantly contact BWY for a quote.

-if it were me, I would raise the mast with the rigging you have and see if it fits. (no sails/no load). if it correct, then you know you just need to measure carefully.

topcat0399 · Feb 19, 2014

I must say that that rigging isn't coming apart; its been damaged by abuse and mis-handleing such as being slammed in hatch lids and getting yanked hard when it hung up during mast raising perhaps. You might want to avoid that.

Welcome to the Venture club. Good stuff.

Fernando Martinez · Feb 19, 2014

I too had to replace my standing rigging a little at a time. I found that Home Depot had the crimping tool for 40 dollars and bought the nicopress fittings from West Marine. The SS cable I bought from a marine/aviation wholesaler. Just shop around some more.

Flamingo1 · Feb 19, 2014

My 73 venture 21 has two forestays. The front is attached to the mast head. The one further aft is about 3/4 up the mast. It can be cutter rigged. Is yours not the same?

Kings Gambit · Feb 19, 2014

Shop around, and get the rigging made up for you. Don't do it yourself b/c it's not one of those kinds of jobs that one can "sort of do", and stop when it seems "good enough." You'll likely end up having to pay to have it done anyway. So, bite the bullet now!

topcat0399 · Feb 20, 2014

meeeowlet said:
I've heard some people talk like that is the worst thing ever, while other seem to hand-crimp rigging with no issues. It's confusing. I guess it's working just fine for you?

No matter what you choose to do someone is bound to think its the worst thing ever. Its you that has to live with it.

I wish I could get a ride on a 21 sometime - seems to be a lot of them out there but I've never seen one around these parts.

TLW · Feb 20, 2014

Help in your area - RIGGING

Island Nautical Enterprises
2233 3rd Avenue South
Saint Petersburg, FL 33712
* Store Hours *
Mon - Fri: 8 to 5:00
Saturday: 9 to 12 Noon
Sunday: Closed

Toll Free: 1-800-652-4914
Phone: 727-577-3220
Fax: 727-577-6816

vizwhiz · Feb 21, 2014

Sumner also found a good source for rigging...maybe try searching his name and rigging in the same search?

Knuttle · Feb 22, 2014

Original V-21 had 3 stays

centerline said:
macgregor did not build any fractional 21's.... they were all masthead rigs. but this is not to say someone hasent modified it it to a fractional rig....

EXCEPT the original Venture 21 built prior to 1970, and possibly into the early 1970's. Be just married and having no money we decided the basic rig was good enough to learn on lakes in Lenawee Co Michigan

My oldest was born in August and I picked my V-21 up at the factory in December 1970. The boat had three stays, Two to the sides of the boat in the traditional attachment points. I believe you had to purchase the spinnaker or Genoa option for the boat to have a stay from the mast head to the bow. As I said that made the boat more the my budget could handle.

The Forestay attached to the mast about 60 to 70% of the way to the top of the mast and about 2' behind the bow. I sailed the boat that way for several years before I had the dealer add the Mast head stay and the spreaders.

Flamingo1 · Feb 22, 2014

Knuttle said:
EXCEPT the original Venture 21 built prior to 1970, and possibly into the early 1970's. Be just married and having no money we decided the basic rig was good enough to learn on lakes in Lenawee Co Michigan

My oldest was born in August and I picked my V-21 up at the factory in December 1970. The boat had three stays, Two to the sides of the boat in the traditional attachment points. I believe you had to purchase the spinnaker or Genoa option for the boat to have a stay from the mast head to the bow. As I said that made the boat more the my budget could handle.

The Forestay attached to the mast about 60 to 70% of the way to the top of the mast and about 2' behind the bow. I sailed the boat that way for several years before I had the dealer add the Mast head stay and the spreaders.

My 1973 has two forestays - one from the masthead to the bow and the second one from about 2/3 the way up the mast to about 2 feet aft of the bow. I can run a cutter rig using a genoa and a jib. So far, I have only used the genoa. I have enough trouble handling the main and the genoa - I don't need to add a third sail to the mix yet.

I'm not sure if that was a later "add-on" or if it was standard in 1973.

Fernando Martinez · Feb 24, 2014

meeeowlet said:
I've heard some people talk like that is the worst thing ever, while other seem to hand-crimp rigging with no issues. It's confusing. I guess it's working just fine for you?

Hi Meeeowlet,
Yes it's really not so bad crimping your own cable, the tool is similar to a giant bolt cutter but with the mandrel for niccopress. The most important thing to do is measure twice and then have someone else measure your mark so there are no mistakes when cutting or crimping. So far I've done standing rigging and the life line. What I don't have faith on is the small crimper that you have to use a hammer, someone at the marina lent me this tool but it didn't look reassuring enough to use.

Doc_holiday · Feb 27, 2014

Flamingo1 said:
My 1973 has two forestays - one from the masthead to the bow and the second one from about 2/3 the way up the mast to about 2 feet aft of the bow. I can run a cutter rig using a genoa and a jib. So far, I have only used the genoa. I have enough trouble handling the main and the genoa - I don't need to add a third sail to the mix yet. I'm not sure if that was a later "add-on" or if it was standard in 1973.

How do you tack?

Flamingo1 · Feb 27, 2014

Doc_holiday said:
How do you tack?

I have to pull the jib sheets and actually pull the jib between the more-aft forestay. I put a pvc pipe on that forestay to allow it to slide past easier without catching or chafing too much. It definitely was challenging and a bit confusing the first couple of times I went out.

I have considering hanking my jib onto the more-aft forestay for that reason - but now that I have the pvc in place, it actually comes across relatively smoothly.