Jib/ Genoa Cam Cleats

Tsatzsue

Tsatzsue

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May 16, 2011
555
Macgregor V-25 Charlton, MA- Trailer
The slotted cleats for my jib/ genoa sheets are finally giving up the ghost. They always seem to pop out creating that moment of heart racing excitement that separates those long moments of peace and solace. I guess this fulfills the meaning of sailing! I would like to install swivel cam cleats like the one that my main sheet runs through. I think that this would not only allow for a secure hold but would also allow for a quick release when needed.

Presently my winch(OEM mounted) is ahead of the cleat. The sheet wraps the winch and is then cleated. I use the same set up for both my jib and genoa. The jib runs through cabin top mounted eyes back through the genoa track eye to the winch then cleat. There is never enough pull on the jib to require the winch but a wrap helps keep it from popping out of the cleat. It is more convenient and safe in my eyes to run the sheet back to a cleat rather than a horned cleat on the top of the cabin bulkhead.

Does anyone have any ideas on hardware or general advice on this topic?
 
THECUSCUS

THECUSCUS

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Sep 25, 2008
961
Macgregor & Island Packet VENTURE 25 & IP-38 NORTH EAST, MD
Ken, here are afew pics to go along with my PM from yesterday. For the jib sheet, a cam cleat on the cabin top would work nice (I use them there for my mainsheet).
 

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Tsatzsue

Tsatzsue

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May 16, 2011
555
Macgregor V-25 Charlton, MA- Trailer
Thanks Cuscus. Lots of options as usual. I swear I'm looking at my boat. Do you have the alien window on the front of the cabin top?
 
THECUSCUS

THECUSCUS

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Sep 25, 2008
961
Macgregor & Island Packet VENTURE 25 & IP-38 NORTH EAST, MD
Thankfully not! one more place for a leak....lol
 
caguy

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
Here is what I used on my Mac25. The advantage is being able to cleat off from the windward side of the boat. I rarely needed the winch but if I did I could still use either lee side or windward side winch. I replaced the old track for a longer one. The new track was easier to find cars that fit. The system worked great.
 

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Jackdaw

Jackdaw

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
THECUSCUS said:
Ken, here are afew pics to go along with my PM from yesterday. For the jib sheet, a cam cleat on the cabin top would work nice (I use them there for my mainsheet).
Click to expand
The block in the 2nd picture is a good way to use a single winch for boat sails. Just make sure the turning block is correctly sized and mounted very securely. The 180 degree turn creates a 200% load factor on the block.
 
Justin_NSA

Justin_NSA

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Jul 7, 2004
8,481
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
I would place the cleat AFTER the winch so that the winch bears the load of the sail. My $.02
 
MrBill_FLL

MrBill_FLL

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May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
if you leave the winch at the stock location, and go with cam cleats, use risers. that will give you a much better angle for lock and release.

you could probably pick up a 2nd set of winches for the coaming... that would be better for a big head sail.

on caguys setup, normally I see the a turning block at the very aft of the boat leading back to that coaming winch for a spinnaker.

kinda weird to see the cam cleat before the winch for a head sail. (no mechanical advantage).

-mby caguy can comment on how they are used.

or he's just a manly man... and doesnt need those girly winches... LOL!
 
topcat0399

topcat0399

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Aug 22, 2011
1,113
MacGregor Venture V224 Cheeseland
THECUSCUS said:
Ken, here are afew pics to go along with my PM from yesterday. For the jib sheet, a cam cleat on the cabin top would work nice (I use them there for my mainsheet).
Click to expand

For some reason your winch location seems ....unusual?

I sure wish Genoa track and cars were within my budget. I'm envious.

We use armstong, when the wind gets up we use more armstrong.
 
caguy

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
MrBill_FLL said:
if you leave the winch at the stock location, and go with cam cleats, use risers. that will give you a much better angle for lock and release.

you could probably pick up a 2nd set of winches for the coaming... that would be better for a big head sail.

on caguys setup, normally I see the a turning block at the very aft of the boat leading back to that coaming winch for a spinnaker.

kinda weird to see the cam cleat before the winch for a head sail. (no mechanical advantage).

-mby caguy can comment on how they are used.

or he's just a manly man... and doesnt need those girly winches... LOL!
Click to expand
On the Mac 25 size of boat I rarely used the winch. On rare occasions 15kt+ winds I can use the winch to pull it through the cleat. On the C-27 I would not use this. ON the C-27 I use Winchers. I also use a two speed winch on the C-27 and love it.
 
justsomeguy

justsomeguy

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Feb 20, 2011
8,059
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Jackdaw said:
The block in the 2nd picture is a good way to use a single winch for boat sails. Just make sure the turning block is correctly sized and mounted very securely. The 180 degree turn creates a 200% load factor on the block.
Click to expand
Why does this 200% number bother my senses?

Wouldn't be the first time I've been schooled, hopefully not the last.
 
THECUSCUS

THECUSCUS

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Sep 25, 2008
961
Macgregor & Island Packet VENTURE 25 & IP-38 NORTH EAST, MD
For some reason your winch location seems ....unusual?


What's unusual Cat?
 
caguy

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
The winches are further forward than most. He would not need the turning block it he had the fair lead that came with the boat. The fair lead was much lower and feeds into the bottom of the winch.
 

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THECUSCUS

THECUSCUS

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Sep 25, 2008
961
Macgregor & Island Packet VENTURE 25 & IP-38 NORTH EAST, MD
We race our boat a lot, and having the winches forward keeps the jib trimmer out of the helmsman s way. It also keeps the Bimini from interfering with the winch handle when cranking. This video shows us tacking, without tripping over each other. Also note that by using the winch, one can pull the jib sheet in tight while the sail is under load, allowing you to maintain speed (no luffing the sail to be able to pull it in tight).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY8IwdjN0WI
 
vizwhiz

vizwhiz

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Aug 7, 2011
496
MacGregor 26S Lakeland, FL
Great tack...thanks for posting that video!

I also noticed the cabintop winches needing a riser under the cam cleats to make them feed better.

Just to help the original poster with names of things...
The little fixed-width wedges with teeth in them that you lay the rope in (and it grabs under tension so it won't go back) is called a "clam cleat" (because it looks like a clam with the shell slightly open perhaps?). They are static and nothing moves on them.
The type you are describing with two spring-loaded rotating grips on it that you pull the rope between to grip are called "cam cleats" because they are made up of two cams that open and close on the rope as they rotate.

I only wish they had given one of them a name that was more different!
 
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